A SERIES of arrests have been made after fights broke out over the new smoking ban.

Police have reported a number of incidents around Andalucia including a stabbing in Albolote in Granada and an assault on two officers in Vélez Málaga.

The clash in Albolote came after a waitress repeatedly asked a man to put out his cigarette.

Three customers stepped in to help her and a fight broke out that left one of them with an injured hand and the other needing stitches in his thigh.

While in Vélez Málaga, police officers asked a group in a bar to stop smoking or go outside to finish their cigarettes.

When one of the group refused, the officers attempted to arrest him but his two friends stepped in and started a punch-up that led to all three being arrested.


  1. Stefanjo: slurring an entire segment (20%) of society based on the extreme actions of a few is transparently faulty argumentation.

    Fred: once more, how was that number obtained? Is there a registry of people who quit smoking with a list of 600,000 names?

  2. As I’ve said before, statistics can be manipulated to support nearly anything. Personally, I don’t place much stock in them.

    As I’ve also said before, it’s not up to you to decide who has won or lost. But if I have lost, why do you keep bothering with me?

    Stefanjo: that’s what comes of deriving enjoyment from denying others their pleasure in place of having pleasures of one’s own. Antismokers are never happy, no matter how many intolerant victories they achieve, as people will continue to enjoy tobacco.

  3. The only thing simple is you, Stu. I enjoy smoking, ergo it’s pleasure. It’s only addiction to you because you don’t like it. I’ll bet you have some “addictions” of your own, not the least of them self-righteousness. Your attitude reminds me of one of Oscar Wilde’s many apt remarks, “An alcoholic is someone you don’t like who drinks as much as you do.”

  4. Chris, there is a big difference between being a antismoker and a nonsmoker. You prefer the term antismoker, since you want this debate to be about your “loss of freedom”, but then you fail to comprehend that non-smokers have rights too, and they didn’t get addicted to tobacco in the first place.

    Again, no one has stopped you “enjoying” tobacco; you have not been stopped from smoking. You’ll just have to learn to abide by the law Chris, as you already do with a myriad of other laws. If you don’t like your laws, then move somewhere else.

  5. Classic denial syndrome.

    Here’s the cracker – if it was really a pleasure instead of an addiction, you could stop smoking for a month just to prove the point -of course you can’t – dont bother replying with some b/s.

    I have personally known only two people who really cpould just smoke a few cigarettes one week and then nothing for maybe a month – they were the exception that proves the rule.

    I also know of plenty of people who did’nt smoke tobacco but got into smoking joints and became nicotine junkies – they grew up and stopped smoking ganja but could’nt stop smoking the evil weed.

  6. What a little bossyboots you are, Stu. Not only do you want to tell me how to live my life (and what is and isn’t pleasure), you also want to tell me not to respond. I must have missed the memo that empowers you to dictate everything. Or should I just naturally recognize that, owing to your obvious superiority in all things, you have that divine right?

    You seem to have a marvelous gift for missing the obvious, i.e. that things that give pleasure, such as smoking, drinking and using other drugs, eating, sex, gambling, etc. are precisely the things people become “addicted” to. And of course nobody will want to go without a smoke, a drink, their favorite food, or an orgasm, for a month “just to prove a point”, though they may if they really have to.

    Commentator Frank Davis confesses that he can’t go for more than a couple hours without water–he’s clearly very strongly addicted to the stuff. And don’t get him started on oxygen.

    It seems that if tobacco were as addictive as, say, heroin, smokers would not be able to endure long air journeys without serious physical withdrawal symptoms. Yet they do manage, with only some psychological discomfort. And don’t hordes of people quit smoking all the time without resorting to a dryout at a rehab clinic? Our good friend Fred claims that hundred of thousands of Spaniards are quitting and doing so with sonrisas en sus caras. My wife has quit cold turkey twice–the first time for 9 years, now for 3 and counting and she didn’t go through any massive trauma, just some cravings for a while.

    BTW, I’ve always admired how antismokers can hold 2 opposing positions at the same time: “The vast majority wants nonsmoking pubs, but we can’t let pubs decide for themselves whether to allow smoking because for some mysterious reason they’ll choose to cater to the minority.”

    I should further inform you that plenty of grownups smoke ganja. When you grow up yourself, you’ll see that.

  7. Chris ganja is’nt addictive – tobacco is far more addictive than heroin and don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about I’ve worked with junkies, have you?

    You do enjoy making a fool of yourself don’t you – your wife gave up twice but fell off the wagon – she is an addict. Gambling can be a terrible addiction that can and does destroy lives and families.

    Eating is a neccesity in order to survive but look what happens when it becomes an addiction – obesity. I love cooking and for whatever reason I have always enjoyed what is now described as ‘healthy eating’ -I may one day become vegetarian but I most definately am not junked on eating.

    Sex – wonderful way to exercise – did’nt know it was bad for youre health.

    Ganja has marvellous palliative qualities for those with many health problems but is best ingested via ‘bhang tea’ aka no damage to the respitory system.

    You really do need to seek some help – as Fred said nobody is trying to stop you dying of lung cancer or having your legs amputated from gangrene. We just don’t want to have to suffer the foul stench of your addiction.

    You can’t even bring yourself to use that word – why?

    My father worked with a man who was a heavy smoker. First he had one leg amputated – did he stop ‘his pleasure’ no of course he did’nt he was an addict. Then he had the second leg amputated – and still he could’nt stop.

    There are many surgeons across the world who refuse to operate on nicotine junkies.

  8. Fred: But, according to Stuart, they’ll all be back soon because tobacco is more addictive than heroin. Pyrrhic victory, what?

    Maybe I’d like to eat in a restaurant and have a smoke afterwards. You still haven’t told me why there can’t be restaurants–or sections of restaurants– that cater to me. Is it that you’re so narcissistic and self-important that you think the entire world must bow to yoru every whim?

    Stu: Oh, so you’ve worked with junkies and that’s colored the way you view the world, so we’re all just addicts waiting to happen–addicts who will need your kind compassionate toughlove ‘c ause you’ve just got it oh so much more together, right?

    You still have not explained, Dr. Expert, why we “addicts” don’t go into violent physical seizures when deprived of our addiction. (Notice that I’m using your favorite words.)
    I do enjoy making a fool of myself ( I notice no mention of alcohol in your post. I just read that some cementhead in the UK government wants all alcoholic beverages in Blighty watered down to discourage “binge” drinking, another artificial concept designed to frighten the horses), but it’s even more fun making fools of you and Fred, not that there’s much challenge to it. So, tell me, when will the Therapeutic State be banning booze, gambling and foods you consider junk?
    BTW, no one has said sex is bad for your health, merely that something called sex addiction is recognized. Did all those years in Needle Park distort the semantic processing areas of yoru brain? Or perhaps you yourself was once in thrall to Lady H and now feel you must evangelize all of us.
    You also failed to read that the wife quit for 9 years, not an inconsiderable amount of time before falling off the wagon. But that doesn’t fit with your vision of permanent addiction that must be permanently monitored, though, does it?

    Thank you for being honest enough to admit that your tobaccophobia is due to yoru own personal dislike and not any danger you fear you may be in. You and the rest of yoru minority can be accomodated in a separate room, or better, a separate estblishment. Maybe a plastic bubble, suspended above the floor, so you can be both literally and figuratively above us.

    More later…

  9. Fredzo: Still waiting for your citations, but the Spanish Society for Pneumology and Thoracic Surgery (SEPAR) released a report on Thursday saying that smoking is actually UP by .5% from 2010.
    And haven’t you been reading Stuart’s posts? You’re supposed to refer to us as “addicts”.

    Stu (con’t): I do have a brother who has been in court-mandated rehab for his gross misuse of painkillers and alcohol and attendant antisocial behavior. Everyone who knows him agrees that his problems have much less to do with his use of substances than of more fundamental psychological problems. And I would say that’s true of anyone I’ve known with any kind of “addiction” problem: it’s not that they’re normal, well-adjusted people until they take a drink or whatever. It’s that the behavior is a symptom of other problems. I would’ve thought you’d know that.
    Funny, Stu, by coincidence my father worked with someone who lost a leg in an auto accident. But did he learn his lesson? No, he kept driving until he had another accident and lost the other leg!
    Or I could say that my father worked with a heavy smoker who lived to be a hundred with no major problems and that “proves” that smoking is good for you. Now, seriously, did you father’s friend’s amputation occur as a direct and exclusive result of his smoking? You’ll have to do better than “You’ll go blind”. BTW, here in New York, it’s recently been revealed that the scare posters of amputees (blaming salt, sugar, fat or some comabination thereof) that grace our subways are actually photoshopped and hence none too credible.

    More later…

  10. I thought you didn’t like statistics Chris, but here you are flip-flopping around yet again and telling us all about them, lol. Alas, your purposely distracting replies will not let you off the hook. Your argument is moot because you have not been banned from smoking and indeed we all defend your right to smoke, but not in public places where smoke can intefere with other non-smokers, some of whom are genuinely made to feel ill by tobacco smoke. Not much point in explaining that to you of course, because you couldn’t care less about that. Luckily that’s why you’ll lose the argument, forever. More later? Great, it just adds strengthens our argument, so thanks.

  11. But I know how much you like stats, Fred. I’m rather disappointed that you had nothing to say about those I cited, especially as they show up yours as being false. You see, SEPAR can hardly be accused of being biased in favor of smokers (excuse me, “addicts”), in fact quite the contrary. Your unverified numbers (600,000 one day! A million the next!!) come from obvious antismoking propagandists and are like most everything else they say, lies.
    Since you can’t address issues that are raised, you have no argument and thus, you’re the one who loses. For example, I’ve stated on numrous occasions that I have no problem with providing for those who dislike smoke (or the tiny minority that “are genuinely made to feel ill”), but you have consistently refused to address the question of there being places for those of us who smoke. Is it because there really is no reason and you just can’t bear to reveal your own intolerance and lack of reason? Don’t worry about that–you already have.

  12. Glad you agree that you are an addict, that’s progress at least. Non-smoking statistics are just as valid as your pro-smoking statistics, so not much point arguing over that point.

    If I’ve lost then why are you the one smoking out in the street? No one is forcing you to stay in the USA. Why not move to a more liberal country? You have options Chris, get over it.

  13. But Fred, my stats come from a much less biased source than yours.

    You seem to think policies like these are arrived upon after something like reasonable discussion and debate. In fact, they’re often shoved through on waves of hysteria and misinformation and very often the proceedings are behind closed doors.

    It is one of my fondest wishes not to die in the US. However, it’s not as bad as the UK or Ireland, where central government dictates some blanket restriction. The US has a federal system, so different states, counties, municipalities can enact different laws. Though some would dearly love a national ban.

  14. There are many laws that prohibit certain activities in public places, but you don’t mention (or care) about those. You abide by those laws, so abide by the smoking laws. People are just getting on with their lives Chris, ban or no ban. You just can’t get over losing this argument, can you?

  15. chris hang in there, remember even smelly smokers have rights in this world

    e.g. you can smoke all you want in your own home, if your living partner, should you have one, lets you of course ……. not many more rights come to mind but hey sometimes you gotta take whats there, right ? Oh another thing you can do – you can always keep posting on this page ……..

  16. Welcome, Saynomore! if there’s on thing this thread can always use it’s yet another expert in The Obvious. Yes, I can keep posting, as can you, though you’d probably be better off following the advice of your moniker.
    As for rights, you’re forgetting the right of association, by which like-minded individuals have the right to each other’s company. Freddy can’t answer, so let’s see how smart you are: why can’t there be designated smoking bars? They can, of course have big warning signs in the windows so frightened little bedwetters won’t wander in by mistake. And you can continue to have smoke-free establishments where you and othere like you can revel in what you inagine to be your moral superiority. Could it be that that superiority isn’t as much fun if it doesn’t come along with denying others their satisfaction?
    “…in your own home”: you must be aware that the ulitmate goal of the smoke nazis is to make it so I can’t even legally smoke in my own home.

    Fredzo: you are a thickie, aren’t you? I haven’t lost the argument; you have because you’ve been consistently unable to answer the points I raise. For the record, I’m against any senseless, mean-spiritied prohibition of any activity in public places. They are, after all, public and that means as many people as possible should be able to enjoy them in as many ways as possible.

  17. Chris reminds me of the bullfighter who, after getting his head impaled by a bull, returns back to the arena because he wants to be a real man lol. You can’t make up the level of stupidity that some people exhibit. Chris is even more stupid than most since he just moans and does nothing about his predicament. Just move somewhere where you can smoke Chris – “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans” has a list. Kazakhstan is lovely this time of year lol.

  18. You seem to have a gift for poorly-considered metaphors, Fred. A matador whose head had been impaled by a bull would not be returning to the ring no matter what his mental state. But as the bull, you really haven’t come close to impalement, since you never answer any of my arguments. You do, however, produce a good deal of bullsh*t, so the metaphor works on that level.
    Since you don’t know me, I don’t see how you can say with any accuracy that I don’t do anything besides complain. I don’t buy cigarettes in New York, nor do I patronize bars here, unless they have smoking areas. I do not vacation in places with overly restrictive smoking laws and try not to buy products from those places either. I also let my so-called representatives know how I feel and how I vote, for whatever that’s worth–not much, in my experience.
    Kazakhstan may indeed be lovely, but given my druthers, I’d opt for the German states of Nordrhein-Westphalia, Baden-Wuerttemberg or Berlin, where smoking and nonsmoking bars exist side by side. Again, your problem with that arrangement? Still waiting to hear, Toro. Until you can explain why tolerance for me is bad, you lose.
    Actually, I don’t have to leave the US. Pennsylvania, only 2 states away, has a system with lots of exemptions for bars.

  19. Hey Chris, as a possible solution to get you back integrated into society – aren’t there any good virtual smoking bars out there ?

    I can just see you sucking on a joy-stick trying to blow smoke up your bar buddies “nostrils”

    ….. and the best of it – nobody would complain !

  20. Saynomore: A much simpler and more satisfying solution would be to allow bars to decide whether or not they’ll permit smoking and to what extent. Then color-coded stickers are assigned for the door, thus removing the danger of someone who dislikes smoke wandering into a smoking place. Works like a charm in Cologne.

    I’ve never tried to blow tobacco smoke into anyone’s nosrils, nor do I know of anyone who has. However, there is a practice among cannabis smokers known as “shotgunning” which involves something similar.

    I’m quite well integrated into society, thanks, at least as intgrated as I care to be.

  21. Reason appears to be making a comeback. Croatia is joining the Netherlands in loosening smoking restrictions due to popular demand. Maybe like the witch hunts of old, the antismoking hysteria will evaporate and future generations will wonder what possessed people.

  22. I see that the UK is now clearing all shopo shelves of tobacco completely. Great stuff, the less we see of it the less people will want it. I wish someone would dunk Chris in the local pond. That would extinguish his argument further lol.

  23. Just like cannabis is not openly displayed and so nobody wants to smoke it!

    I thought you were only interested in not being exposed to the tobacco smoke of others, Fred. Seems you were a bit disingenous about your real agenda.

    Yes, what a shame the days of the witch hunts are past and you can’t just go around dunking those you don’t like. Although, my wonderful country has brought back waterboarding. Maybe you’d be interested in that?

  24. What essential health benefits can cyanide and tar provide your body with again Chris? lol.

    I’m happy to extend my dislike of any form of smoking in public places, just for the record. No agenda, just common sense.

    Waterboarding is one of the least horrible things your country gets up to btw. You really must move to a civilised place Chris.

  25. Life is about more than essential health benefits, Fred. Once you learn that you’ll be less of a pain in the arse. More to the point, I can’t find any previous posts in which I claim tar and cyanide provide them. If you could point me to said posts, I’d be grateful. Otherwise, I’d be grateful if you didn’t stoop to the tactic of putting words in my mouth.

    It would have been more effective had you made your position clear from the start, instead of posing as someone who merely wished the option of not being exposed to smoke. Let’s see if we’ve got it right this time: You wish there to be no smoking in any visible (“public” to you, even though privately owned businesses aren’t actually public) place, whether you or anyone else who dislikes smoke is affected or not.
    Is that it? If so, it’s far from anything resembling common sense. You seem to think common sense is whatever coincides with your prejudices.

    OK, so we’ve established your agenda and shall refer back to it, just in case you flip-flop again and start to call for a ban in private homes (which we all know you will!)

    The US does indeed get up to many horrible things, but I don’t think a UK native is in any position to throw stones. After all, we learned most of our dirty tricks from you!

  26. I’m very glad that you find me a pain in the arse, Chris. I’m also very pleased to see you using my phrases as well. I never thought a linguist would need to do that, but there you go. Alas, immitation will not make your argument less weak.

    I’ve already said, and for the record here, that I defend your right to smoke many times already; just not in public places. A privately owned smoking club is fine by me. Why don’t you start one and live in it permanently Chris? Or, why not move to Croatia? You have choices. You can’t even move out of your own country like expats on this forum have. Go on, take a risk.

  27. NOW we are getting somewhere! Privately owned smoking clubs are fine by you, which makes you light years more enlightened than the politicians in Spain and the UK, where even a privately-owned, gruesome-warning-at-the-door place that would allow smoking is abolutely verboten.
    Don’t know why I’d want to live in such a place, though, any more than anyone would want to live in any sort of pub permanently.

    I’ve wanted to leave the US since Gulf War I (nothing to do with smoking at all!), but I have family and social ties that I can’t just abandon.

  28. Glad to find common ground with you Chris, but it’s nothing new since I said all this much earlier in the thread (forgotten what year it was now.) Public areas are the no-no. Smoking clubs are private non-public venues. No confusion there.

    Ah the good old Gulf War. Stormin’ Norman and Bush’s ‘victory’ message on the aircraft carrier, when the real war had only just began. America eh. lol.

  29. I remember becoming a member of the “1. Regensburger Raucherclub” back in 2008. I told the barman I wanted to join. He charged me one euro and gave me a form to fill out. I could even have a beer while doing it. Got a nifty membership card. Stayed and got roaring drunk.

    A year later, I revisited Regensburg with the missus. Told her she’d have to join up, but this time they didn’t even ask to see my card. By this time 30% of Bavaria’s pubs allowed smoking–leaving a whopping 70% nonsmoking. Did this satisfy the smoke nazis? Nope.

  30. The Nazi phrase is indeed apt, since we’re discussing Germany and the Nazis were the first to insitute modern smoking bans. More importantly, Nazism, like all totalitarian movements, sought total control over every aspect of people’s lives and posited that the idnvidual’s body/life did not belong to him/herself, but to the state and that individual wishes and desires must be subordinated to the “greater good”, etc.

  31. How does a smoking in public places ban seek to control every aspect of your life Chris lol? It doesn’t, it just does what is reasonable, healthy and plain common sense.

    As you agreed much earlier on in this thread, people do need some aspects of their lives controlling. I mean, I take it that you want a police force to enforce law and order etc?

    Meanwhile in the real world, smoking levels in Spain are vastly down and life goes on.

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