A DECISION by Ryanair to sack a steward who ate a €5.50 sandwich while working has been upheld by Madrid’s city court.
The Madrid-based steward was dismissed in 2011 after he failed to follow the discount airline’s food purchasing protocol.
He neither informed other crew members he was eating, nor paid for the ham, cheese and tomato baguette as required by the company’s regulations.
The steward has appealed twice, first to the labour court in Madrid and most recently to the city’s court of law.
Both judges dismissed his appeal on the basis the low-cost airline operates according to Irish law, and the steward was hired through a job agency in Oslo.
Get a life you lot!
Nothing to do with democracy, Caccia. From now on all comments from all contributors should be related to the subject of the original article or they will be deleted.
Not a case of adoption, it was a case of agreeing in what Brian was saying and NOT agreeing with the attitude that Fred takes regarding stealing.
This also applies to you.
Not a case of adoption, it was a case of agreeing in what Brian was saying and NOT agreeing with the attitude that Fred takes regarding stealing.
You see, we don’t really know the whole story regarding the stealing of a sandwich. Was it a first time, had he been warned previously and was the sandwich the only thing he had been warned about. People do tend to jump to conclusions.
Besides the sacking was also a warning to others.
Stealing is stealing, full stop. Irrespective of other issues he may or may not have been disciplined about previously, a deliberate contravention of contractual obligations, especially those which make it explicit that theft will result in dismissal make any subsequent appeal a waste of time and money.
And of course few lawyers would turn down the opportunity to make a few easy bob or two rather than advise the hopelessness of an appeal. And Sr Montesinos still failed to recognise his futile attitude by raising a second appeal. I doubt he will find many employers queuing up to welcome him now. Had he accepted his stupidity and kept quiet he would now, quite possibly, be back in employment and a few thousand euro better off to boot.
I wonder if he got Spanish legal aid?. If not wow.
My attitude to the consequences of stealing depends very much on the context of it, and not on what Caccia (who now has negative credibility on this blog) says. Personally, in this particular case, I would have given a warning with dismissal on any further incident of theft or disobedience. Who knows, perhaps he would have even paid for the sandwich if confronted about it?
@brian: Some people steal because they are hungry or because they are desparate, or because they have a mental illness. There are many reasons. You didn’t get very wise in your senior years did you?
I couldn’t care less what your opinion is regarding my credibility on this so called blog, I said what I wanted to say and it does not change my own opinions. It’s still on the so called blog for all to read.
As for your personal attitude about giving a warning for stealing is not the personal attitude of a company, do you not understand this.
The guy was employed and on a salary and knew that:-
“he failed to follow the discount airline’s food purchasing protocol”.
Stop making excuses for him. He was found guilty by two courts, Spanish courts I might add.
“Found guilty by two Spanish courts” That settles it then. As we know, those people are infallible. Not. Justice is only justice when it is tempered with mercy.
@Fred…….On the contrary Fred, my seniority, both in age and business responsibilities, has been fortified by the certain knowledge, borne of experience, that theft, from either customers or employees is ALWAYS driven by greed, opportunity or the preplanned intent to deprive/embezzle.
I have NEVER, upon reporting an incidence of theft to the police, discovered any other motive…And, in the case of employees I have ALWAYS dismissed those involved….Two consecutive accreditations with Investors in People (not an easily acquired award) bears witness to the integrity of implementing correctly the interpretation of “theft” and of ensuring that contracts of employment are clear and concise in this respect.
It is not about attitude or the absence of “justice tempered with mercy” (stefanjo), it is about making a clear and easily understood statement that theft by employees will not be tolerated.
I thought someone would fall for that:-
“He was found guilty by two courts, Spanish courts I might add”
Stefanjo, the results would have been the same in a British court, and if you had read the report correctly you would have known why the Spanish courts rejected his claim.
Again it was greed, hoping to get compensation from the company, but the fact is he was a thief and a British court would have dealt with the matter in the same way.
You made a sweeping statement and are now doing U-turn. Stealing is not always done for the reasons you mention, and just because you, personally, have never discovered any other motive doesn’t mean that other motives don’t exist. And an “Investor In People” award doesn’t mean you definitively handled anything correctly, whatsoever. That claim could be interpreted in so many different ways, forr ecample you can also “invest” in a person by giving them a second chance e.g. by giving a reformed criminal a second chance in work, for example. Your interpretations are like those of a jobsworth (in my opinion.)
Btw, you don’t have to shout out certain words brian lol. Looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Btw brian, back in 2005, IiP was named as one of the top nine “most useless” quangos in the UK. It has about as much credibility as the “British Potato Council” lol. If you Google it you can see numerous articles, from sources such as the BBC etc.
What a waste of time commenting at length on here.
The article was about someone getting sacked for stealing a sandwich. If you were an efficient boss you’d stamp this out.
As you can see, it’s a waste of time and one wonder’s if Fred may have been in the same position as that steward at one time.
Had he also considered that if you were lenient to a thief your job may have also been on the line.
@Fred…I retired in 2000. Up until then IiP was a highly respected organisation employed by many blue chip companies as a mechanism for business improvement through the structured development of the workforce. “Investors in People” is not and never was a quango and it is now deployed in over 70 countries.
So, the BBC are a prime resource in analysing and reporting on the professionalism of management??…Don’t make me laugh….From the top with Lord Patten, who doesn’t know what day of the week it is, right through the whole uncontrollable monolithic shambles, it is in no position to pass judgement on management processes in the business world.
To return to the subject, (sorry OP) this report is about an employee who deliberately contravened clear contractual obligations. He wasn’t “starving” or “mentally ill”. He was dismissed, deservedly so, and lost 2 appeals, deservedly so. He may well get his “second chance” with his next employer, but it won’t be with Ryanair.
No Caccia, I’m just more empathic than you are lol. Actually, people should be quickly reminded of why it’s a waste of time debating with you. Firstly, you used multiple aliases to post lots of fake responses, and continue to do so, and you were actually caught red-handed. Secondly, you keep changing the subject and can’t keep to topic. Thirdly, you keep making ad hominem remarks and cannot debate matters properly. Case over.
Ya know Fred I can’t quite see you argument regarding theft.
Are you indicating that a person that has spent most of his life to reach a position as a manager should overlook one’s duty, position, salary, and the potential effect it would have on his family life coupled with the possibility of dismissal for not carrying out his responsibility regarding theft over shall we say a sandwich.
We know there are many factors that causes theft but theft is theft and feel sure that after taking all those consideration mentioned one would act in the interest of the company, that is why one reaches the position of a being a manager.
It cuts both ways, the company loses a manager too. Perhaps they should have sat down and discussed the matter, rather than leaping to dismissal? You have my opinion in detail above and I’ve nothing more to add really. I don’t think you have anyting more to add to this thread Caccia and I think you’re just trying to have the last word again, aren’t you? lol.
@brian, why bring the other reasons for stealing into this particular case? I only gave those examples when you mentioned your sweeping statement for why people steal. Likewise, I only gave the BBC as a reference to one of the the stories about the IiP being named as a discredited quango. You can take your pick. Your opinion is that this person should have dismissed, and mine isn’t. Can we agree on that at least?
I think you should accept the fact that your thoughts are well proven to be negative regarding stealing and the quickest way of trying to “U” turn as you constantly keep referring to is-
“You can take your pick. Your opinion is that this person should have dismissed, and mine isn’t. Can we agree on that at least”?. There is no agreement, don’t you still get it. What a get out.
I don’t use multiple aliases I use the name of Caccia and always have. The the other names that perhaps you are referring to were trading names. Ya know, like Tesco, Zara, Lidl and so on. I’m quite surprised that you had come out with such a stupid statement.
“Firstly, you used multiple aliases to post lots of fake responses, and continue to do so, and you were actually caught red-handed”. Caught, caught by whom.
As you have said, keep to the subject of the sacking. Da.
Sorry Frederick, I think you have lost the argument on this one, take it like a man instead of keep “U” turning all the time. (using your favorite expression of “U”)
“Perhaps they should have sat down and discussed the matter, rather than leaping to dismissal”?
It was discussed when he signing a contract of employment.
Btw Fred, It would appear you have never been in business due to not knowing the use of a trading name.
Give you a simple example. Say you had VARIOUS business and all payments went into the name of say Fred Blog and all expenditures were paid out from Fred Blog. Would that be a convenient and a proper way of running a business. Hence, various trading names.
@Fred….Ok, I agree to disagree, but I wish disagreements could be reached without being disagreeable.
@brian, I’m glad to agree to disagree. Now the other participants can at least see that we have come to an agreement, something which of course Caccia could never do.
Caccia, you were caught out red-handed using multiple blog aliases, and no amount of distracting irrelevant information about trading names will hide that fact or recover your credibility. As a person who owned 5 patents by the age of 30 I surpassed your business achievements decades ago lol.
A disagreement does not solve a problem until a compromise has been reached such as your reply to Fred but you still both disagree and nothing solved. All it does is push the issue under the table.
But I think in this case it may solve the various write ups, if you get my drift.
Could you indicate where I used multiple blog aliases. I have always used the name of Caccia if you care to look back.
I think I beat you by 8 years in being in business old chap, at the age of 22 years old, but you skipped the use of a trading name. Anyone can register a patent but it does not mean it’s a working business.
And if I disagree with your comments I will do so the same as agreeing with the sacking of the steward. But please stop knocking Spain if you live here. I have not seen any credit from you that Spain has offered to many thousands to ex-pats that live here but moans, and they are still coming. But all this is for another chapter in OP. Just leave it at that.
I purchased a cottage at the age of 22 for £750 pounds. £100 down and £12 a month repayment to the Halifax Building Society, and let it for £5 pounds a week exclusive.
Eventually sold it to one of my employee’s when it was paid off for £2.950 pounds. In-fact met up with him on my last trip to the U.K lat year and boy had he moved on since then. True, no lies.
Anyone can register a patent, but you didn’t lol. Mine are all in use and are earning revenue, and I purchased my house in London when I was in last year of Uni (20). Oh well Caccia, it was a good fight you put up.
In any event a person who posts fake comments under multiple aliases would never be a trustworthy businessman to start with. That was a real clanger you made there lol.
And you are an honest man, do me a favor Fred, talk about calling a kettle black, and how old were you on your last year at Uni, 20. What did you get a HND (Higher National diploma) or were you a drop out. Most surprised if you gained anything. Pack of fibs.
Now if you wish to venture on a discussion regarding a Bachelor’s, a post graduate degree and a Ph.D, i’m ya man, not personal achievements, but children and grand children and if I told you of their achievements it would be far beyond your mentality.
I don’t need to put up any fight, especially to a person like yourself.
Fred, I feel sorry for you. OP. replying to Fred.
Even if you leave this website for a long time and come back, Fred is always on here continually being pompous and annoying people.
Either he works at the Olive Press to get people to keep coming back for any pay per click revenue or he’s the world’s biggest and saddest perpetual TROLL.
Yes, in my last year of Uni I was just shy of 21, a year or two ahead of the average. You don’t need a HND to start a degree course, an OND is acceptable, and quite normal as an A-level alternative. A HND is equivalent to roughly about 2 years of a BSc (back then anyway) and many students come onto degree courses with HNDs. Done the PhD already, quite recently in fact, via the OU. I know it must be hard for you to take this all in. We are really off topic now, but rest assured you are not ahead of anything, except age. lol.
@Derek, funny how you and Caccia always appear at the same time. Do you live in the same house? lol
Well said, and he had audacity to accuse me of TROLLING, well I never, tut tut.
Can’t stop to answer Fred back at the moment too busy getting ready to go out to play Bingo. Hehe
Don’t think OP has anything to do with Fred, it would tarnish their image.
Just a quick-y before I go out, you said:-
“Anyone can register a patent, but you didn’t lol. Mine are all in use and are earning revenue, and I purchased my house in London when I was in last year of Uni (20). Oh well Caccia, it was a good fight you put up”.
That’s a laugh. 5 patents would have cost you a small fortune for a long patent period and then it only last’s 20 years. So how come you are still earning revenue. Fabrication’s again.
Keep the jokes coming, good for a laugh.
Caccia, no need to tell us your movements, we all know you’ll be back on here very soon, seeing as that is your only activity these days. Patents can be expensive things, but mine still have many years to run, and new ones on the way. They pay themselves.
Bingo seems to be the extent of your skills these days Caccia, best stick to that and leave business to the youngsters. Da.
This was an email that I had sent to another friend, No fabrication here.
Albert. A friend once asked how I had met Michael Balfour and this was my reply to him.
Many years ago I had a large shop in Surbiton, Surrey, called Casa Capodimonte and often saw Michael Balfour stop at the shop window admiring the various pieces on display.
Michael was also a well known actor who also lived in Surbiton and was often seen shopping around the local shops until one Saturday morning he came into my shop. That’s how I came to know Michael and a friendship developed through the large selection of Capodimonte pieces I had imported from Italy. It turned out that Michael was also interested in sculpture and the details of the Capodimonte pieces fascinated him as he also taught the art of sculpture at a school in New Malden, Surrey in the evenings beside his acting profession.
I personally knew and met some of the artist in Italy and Michael’s wish was to meet these artists and jokingly said, “Next time you go I’ll come with you”.
There are many stories and the artistic nature to Michael which I could tell and we never finished having a hot meal in a restaurant due to the various people’s asking for his autograph and he loved to chat.
But my lasting remembrance of Michael was on one occasion when I visited his flat one evening. On the mantelpiece was a full size bust of “Coco the Clown” which he had made. “That’s a nice piece”, I said. “Yes”, he replied. “It’s my favorite piece, do you like it”. “Yes I do”. With that he rose took the piece and handed it to me. “Please accept this as a gift from me”. I still have “Coco”, and often look and think of dear old Michael.
One of the many short stories he once told me.
As a young actor and while filming in Devon one cold February day and during a break he ambled off and sat by a large pond to eat a sandwich. Shortly afterwards an old gentleman came and they started chatting. He said that he was a retired farmer and Michael instinctively went into a Devonshire accent as he relayed what he said. Now Michael was fantastic and impersonating any accent. “What does that pond tell you”, he asked. For a moment I looked. “Well I see lots of water and a few plants growing”. “Ha, you can tell you are a city gent”, he replied. It was then that he told me what the weather and by the forms of life surrounding the pond what would occur for the whole of that year just by the activity surrounding that pond. Michael said he felt humbled as his existence till then had just been filming and had not stood back and took a larger look at life.
Fred Perhaps you should also stand back and take a larger look at life. OP Replying to faults accusations from Fred seeing as he has also not followed the article. But it’s an interesting subject anyway. Leave it to you own discretion.
Pull the other leg.
Bingo, see you don’t even have a sense of humor. As stated in the last para that I had sent. “Perhaps you should also stand back and take a larger look of life.
I only reply to your trolling, so basically that is the extent of your existence, trolling all the time.
You do fabricate a lot lately.
Warning: consistent flirting may have to be monitored, Fred and Caccia.
What, flirt with Fred, mind you if he was like some of those Thai lady boy’s he might stand a chance. Hehehe
Caccia’s ficticious autobiography, part 43. Great bedtime reading there, it would even send a hardened insomniac to sleep lol. Caccia, go and play bingo or bowls or whatever it is you do.
Tom, do me a favour and erase this numskull from existence.
I think it’s Fred you should erase. Don’t think many people agree to his trolling. It would appear that people who do not agree with his thoughts are wrong,
One can see by his attitude and nastiness of various replies,
just look at the last one he had sent to me. He just can’t accept the fact he could be wrong, such as the stealing of the sandwich as an example which was what part and parcel of this article by OP. He list’s his education, but a so called educated person does not reply with such accusations. If OP wishes to be dominated by people such as Fred because others do not fall in line with his thinking’s, then God help us.
Fred, would you wish me to believe you have those so called qualification.
I would suggest young Fred that you should be more understanding that not all people agree with what you say.
This is what a person that has held the very top positions at IBM in the U.K and U.S.A. Part of the team sent to China that negotiated the sale of IBM P.C to China which now comes under the title of Lenovo. Top position at Samsung with responsibilities for the U.K and N.Ireland and who’s immediate boss was the CEO and spokesman for the company to the government. Top position at a university who’s immediate boss was the President. Author of books which are used at Uni’s and elsewhere. Gives Lectures and Seminar’s. Wrote articles for the Financial Times. Went through the whole system of degree courses to Ph.D, none of the degrees including the Ph.D acquired through OU.
This is what he replied when I posed a stealing question to him regardless of it’s value simply replied in a few words.
“It would be investigated through HR internally, and reported to the police. If the person was found at fault, he would be dismissed”.
Hope that answer’s your question as to the article on OP regarding your personal thoughts on stealing.
No doubt you will troll back with some negative answer once more. Full stop.
Caccia, you have already demonstrated that you cannot keep to topic with your irrelevant ramblings, you were caught red-handed trolling with multiple aliases, and you resort to ad hominem insults when you are challenged on anything by a person who doesn’t agree with you. I even reached out to brian to stop bickering and just agree to disagree. You are actually a quite vicious individual with a massive chip on your shoulder about something. It it for those reasons that you lost total credibility on this blog and nothing you say now will be believed.
My thoughts on the theft in this article remain the same, and have not been disproven by you, or indeed anyone. You’ll just have to get used that Caccia. Full stop?
On the Contrary Frederick it’s you that does all the trolling, and the last article sent to me clearly illustrates your rambling which had nothing to do with the topic.
I air my views on subjects that I disagree with, not only your blog’s but others which maybe differ to what I believe, but I don’t force my opinion on others.
I did ask you to point out these so called Multiple aliases, that you mention but as of datre have had no response. I only use the name of caccia.
I certainly do not have a chip on my shoulder, but you have, and by the response I get from you one could say is vicious just because I do not agree with things you comment on.
Now if you print the good things about Spain and the advantages that so many thousands of various ex-pat receive and are still willing to come here, then most probably I would agree with you, but all the moaning’s do not solve any of the problems.
That hotel on the beach will most probably be completed regardless of the opposition, what do you personally intend to do about it, nothing, just moan. Get my drift.
One can pick faults with many other countries but you decided to live in Spain, why not in the U.K. Something in Spain must have attracted you otherwise you would not be here.
You see what I mean about your thoughts regarding the theft. Your reaction would be of a personal nature and has nothing to do with the actual theft itself.
Two illustration’s have been given regarding a theft which is completely correct, so why not admit that the action taken was correct instead of your personal view’s of the law. Quite understand if you make a “U” turn.
As I had said much earlier I also gave Ian a second chance, but it did not excuse his act of a theft.
“it’s you that does all the trolling”
Says the self-confessed troll who was caught red-handed using multiple aliases lol.
I don’t believe the dismissal in this case was correct, and my opinion on that particular case will not change, no matter how much you complain about it. Please accept other people have different opinions to your own Caccia. Get my drift?
Just out of curiosity, what financial gain did the University receive from a company regarding your research for that company in a one step up as part of a post grad degree. (I don’t mean in one of those false OU that the government was compelled to close down).
This also is part of a build up to acquiring a Ph.D with a thesis. Just curious that’s all.
Stop pussy footing, was the dismissal of the theft correct, not your personal reaction to the theft, A simple YES would be accepted and stop alluding the question. Your wrong, but do not wish to admit it, that’s been your problem on many items on OP.
Dismissal for theft was wrong in this case. A warning would have been more appropriate. That’s my opinion Caccia, and it won’t change. Learn to accept other peoples opinions. When you’ve completed four degrees come back and talk to me. I doubt you’d even get on to a degree course, let alone complete one lol. You’re so out of your depth Caccia if only you knew.
Your still are not able to answer simple questions. I take it all what you have said to be pure fabrications.
Once again I pose these simple questions.
1. Direct me to the Multiple Aliases that I have posted on OP.
2. Four degree’s and a Ph.D to boot, that’s a joke, possibly one OU diploma (that’s if you had past)from a non registered Uni, and even that’s debatable.
3. Well how much cash did you generate for the so called Uni as this is what happens in a proper Uni.
4. Can’t accept your wrong on the dismissal of the steward.
Note. A wonderful negative answer given to a Lawyer if you were in the dock. “Dismissal for theft was wrong in this case”. You would have the whole court burst out laughing.
Be a man for a change, I won’t hold it against you, in-fact you may even gain a notch for honesty in the eyes of others on OP.
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