9 Sep, 2016 @ 12:16
1 min read

SCHENGEN OF DEFENSE: EU wants its own NATO-style army following Brexit

eu army e

eu army EU countries have begun talks on the creation of a European Defense Union, a collective security pact similar to NATO.

France, Italy and Germany’s defence ministers discussed the idea on Thursday after it was reintroduced at a trilateral meeting between the three countries on August 22.

German Defense Minister Ursual Von der Leyen said: “It’s time to move forward to a European Defense Union, which is basically a ‘Schengen of defense’, this is what the Americans expect us to do.”

The hopes are that the EU bloc will reach a level of collective security that will allow its members to treat Article 42(7) of the EU Treaty as the equivalent of NATO’s Article V guarantee, meaning an attack on one member is an attack on every member.

The Schengen area

The treaty would commit all members to retaliate against any state that attacked an EU country.

It is designed to act as a deterrent to would-be attackers.

An Italian defense source told press the initiative has been catalyzed by the June 23 referendum.

“The UK’s exit frees up a lot of energy because they blocked everything,” they said.

The Italians are now proposing giving European defense ministries and private firms access to financing from the EU investment bank and the EU fund for Strategic Investments to build military infrastructure.

The creation of the pact will be discussed further at a meeting of EU leaders in Bratislava, Slovakia on September 16.

Laurence Dollimore

Laurence has a BA and MA in International Relations and a Gold Standard diploma in Multi-Media journalism from News Associates in London. He has almost a decade of experience and previously worked as a senior reporter for the Mail Online in London.

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    • Why would the UK need or want to have a say in the proposals for an EU army? How the hell would it work anyway? What language would the officers give commands in? Would all the soldiers from different countries have to speak several languages. What would be the primary mission of all the different countries in Europe? Protecting the Eastern EU countries from Russian aggression? Migrant troubles from the South? Where would all the equipment come from? You can bet France or Germany will want to be in supreme charge. Will all the other countries let their young people be sent to war on the whim of Germany or France?
      It will be a mess, and the UK is much better off out of it. NATO exists for a reason and an EU army is not needed.

      • Well said Tim, he does spout rubbish at times. Out of interest the EU need and will still want British Intel which is reckoned on being the best in Europe, I’m biased but I have a family member who can vouch for this.

        I can just see the bankrupt Italians running from the fight lol

  1. I like this idea. EU is an intent for the rebuilding of the roman empire. And this is a thing that is not atractive for the English people.

    Is better that the English and the Continentals will follow their respective routes.

  2. Now let’s see. Mr. Juncker and his cronies now wish to create a federal state and an EU army which the UK opposed both suggestions. I can understand the opposition to a federal state and all its complications but can’t quite understand the purpose of an EU army. Germany under a treaty of losing two World wars are allowed to maintain an army for self defense, France capitulated in the last war followed by Italy doing a runner and Spain’s last big war, which they haven’t got over, was lost to Great Britain. As for the rest of Europe, well really they were just a side show. In fact all losers.
    Now the idea of having an EU army is a kind of a protection, a protection that an attack on a EU member would be an attack on all the member states, ie; the suggestion being Russia the attacker. But wait a minute, we know that most of Europe are signed members of Nato and come under the protection of America (who are now fed up of paying vast sums for the protection of Europe) but supposing some of the future members (that’s if the EU still exists) are not part of Nato and are attacked by say Russia what then. Do you think Trump, the next president of America would become involved because of a EU policy of protecting a non Nato country. We have seen the outcome of Crimea. Btw, Trump will build that wall and the Mexicans will pay for it.
    Does Europe have deep nuclear bunkers which the Russians have been building for years, does the EU have nuclear weapons, besides France, and if it came to a crunch would France use its nuclear weapons. They say that Russia has now developed a nuclear bomb that could turn a large city into dust but also a bomb that could destroy a whole country the size of France. Would the EU also have an army that speaks one language using all the same type of weaponry etc etc….
    Who would pay for all this, not Britain, Britain will not be a part of the EU and most of the other EU countries are skint.
    Could prolong it but thought of keeping it as short as possible..

  3. Anselmo,
    I suppose you are like so many Spanish who think they are Latins – you are not. The Roman Empire was a looting and killing machine, just like you Spanish Catholics in Central and South America, perhaps that’s why you admire them?

    Hey Nose, Russia is’nt the enemy, you must deprogramme all that CIA b/s. NATO exists as a shield for the USA and is constantly trying to annoy Russia by planting nuclear missiles right up against her borders. Remember the letch, Kennedy threatening nuclear war because Russia wanted to have nuclear weapons in Cuba. On thing the Americans are good at – hypocracy – they learned it from the old collapsing British Empire.

    Any EU army will be controlled totally by the Germans. How well will it perform – take a look at the impotence of the EU when the Serb Red Fascists and the blackshirt Fascists of Croatia (see their record in WW11) were trying to exterminate the moderate, well educated Bosnian Moslems. Young Muslims saw how the Christian West allowed the massacre at Srebenica to happen, the horror of Iraq, then Syria, excellent material for the Jihadist mullahs to use for recruitment.

    Don’t forget that the EU now has the parasitic East European fanatically Catholic countries as a front line, only an armchair warrior like stefanjo would want to be part of this military insanity.

    • Hey Stuart, I didn’t say Russia was the enemy it was a EU directive that mentioned a EU army was required as a deterrent against Russia. I must admit though, a army with the four pigs involved would be a great repellent. Mind you with all the walls being built around Europe I wonder if the mighty Russian army would be capable of breaking them down, and fancy stealing Trump’s idea of building a wall, which was a laughing stock by many at the time, and as Farage would say, “not a laughing stock now”, the difference is the Mexicans will be paying for “The Great Wall Of America”.

  4. Stuart
    I don’t think that Iam latín. And I don’t know any Spaniardd that think that he is latin, or descendent of the Romans.
    A diferent question is to admit that the base of tour culture is the roman culture.

    Is an evident reality that the western continental europeans miss the times of the Pax Romana.

  5. With the EU’s record on managing banking, agriculture, human rights and immigration, the elite technocrats now want to run the military? The arrogance astounds!

    • Arnold Toynbee in his famous book “Study of the History” wrote that the last stage of the civilization before his fall,was the constitution of an universal state. It means EU,and EU army. And too it means the last stage of a declive process,that will finish by barbarian invasions, acording Tonybee.

      But the Continentals must play the rol assigned for them. I think that the Spaniards not fit in this role, because for historicaL reasons,similar to the British, we are involved with America.

    • If a certain car manufacturer leaves Sunderland, I think there will be plenty of regrets. Spain is the hot favourite to benefit from this relocation! Brexit bounce!

    • Seems to be 3 groups, Brexiteers who got what they wanted and don’t need to whinge, many Remainers who have accepted the decision and may get involved in negotiations, then there’s the Remoaners like you who need to whinge and are ‘very touchy’, can’t move on, but can do diddly squat to alter the vote! Give it time!

      • “Seems to be 3 groups, Brexiteers who got what they wanted”

        With respect Mike, how do you know you got what you wanted? Not even Teresa May knows that. It certainly is a risk not knowing what you’ll get, and with the Brexit blackout in place, it seems noone will know for years to come, potentially.

        • Fred, I’m more than happy with the vote, in fact since the vote its been helpful for us which is a bonus at this time, so no complaints, and I know others who also have benefitted. Unfortunately neither ‘In’ nor ‘Out’ will please or work the same for everyone but I can’t help there. No-one knows the future though but I doubt it will be as bad as Cameron & Co were scaremongering. It is a risk not knowing what we will get but IMO that applies to staying in as well. I am encouraged by the likes of JCB, Tate & Lyle, Wetherspoon and Dyson who are positive about Brexit others will disagree.

          At the end of the day is the vote going to change, I’m really pleased when I read Remainers saying despite the vote they accept it? Its just Remoaners like one guy on here who will never accept it.

          • Mike, please explain what “benefits” these “others” received. I’m sure all the OP readers are curious, indeed it may help the remoaners understand things better.

          • Don’t worry Fred, its not direct payments from the EU or Gov’t or anything mysterious lol, just personal investment decisions which the Brexit vote helped in our case.

            Anyway, your decision to vote remain you said was for family and business reasons I believe, but then I am not curious about your personal finances/benefits as I doubt OP readers are either.

            Certain Remainers became remoaners because the vote didn’t go the way they wanted.

        • Apparently Fred there is only one group that’s in denial and its called the “remainders”. Besides it will not effect you as you have stated have duel nationality. So what’s you problem, surely not the well being of a democratic country.

  6. Fred,
    you might want to be part of a USA controlled NATO but I know plenty who don’t. As an American general once said “if it kicks off where do you want a war fought in someone else’s backyard or your own”.

    NATO on the USA’s orders has been trying very hard to make the Russians angry. Every fool and it’s mother knows that CIA pumped billions into the Ukraine extreme right wing groups to destabilise that country. The history of Syria will expose the same thing when the facts are known.

    The only country that wants to ‘control’ Europe is the USA, they have tried with TTIP. Just look at the arrogant attitude of Apple’s boss – how dare they try and tax my company, same goes for Amazon, Starbucks – this is where Europe’s danger lies that’s why the USA keeps pointing the finger at Russia – the bogeyman. Now the Brussels cartel is touting the UK as their new bogeyman. You want to find out the truth – follow the money.

    • Stuart, your reply seems to imply that you like the idea of a EU army – at least it’s one way of breaking the reliance on NATO? I don’t currently have a choice of about “wanting” to be a member of NATO, as of course do you. However, we need something, or are you saying that we should go it alone on that too?

      Agree totally with your comments about the USA, as you know I am no supporter and actually think they are a great evil in the world. As for NATO, its 73% funded by the USA, so they are clearly bashing us with the “world’s policeman” statistic over and over again. I don’t think NATO is obsolete (Trump’s words) but of course not all EU members are part of NATO and that is Junker’s point. NATO also does not handle domestic terrorism and it’s unsure what role the EU army (EUA) would play in that, if any. People are always complaining about the porous nature of the Schengen zone and how it needs protecting in light of recent terrorist events, and so at least they are trying to address the issue with the EUA and the recent introduction of VIS/EEAS.

      I see you also raised the subject of Apple, so I take it you agree with the EU’s recent legal action against them? And don’t forget the recent case against Mastercard too? Seems the EU are doing some good things recently, no?

      Anyway, this EU army idea is a European issue and does not concern the UK, so why worry about it? The EU are at least getting on with things, whilst the UK continues with their own”mission impossible” to try and extricate itself from 40 years of being the EU. The EU is addressing the big issues here.

  7. Jane hit the nail right on the head, my niece works for the car manufacturer ” Nissan ” near Sunderland and the news is that the future isn’t looking rosy…Also the university of Sunderland will lose the 5 million it gets from the EU and they have already announced redundancies starting next year before the losses come into play…This is just the start…

    • Elizabeth. It’s not the EU money they get, it’s from the Billions that the UK gives to the EU. The same as the monies given to the British farmers. The EU says give us 10 quid and we give you a couple of quid back. Mafia style.

        • Unfortunately Fred OP tends to omit various replies to you which are all genuine.
          As for the distribution of money I totally agree with you as it’s mostly from Germany and Britain with the couple of quid thrown back to the UK.
          Its also a pity OP didn’t allow a version of how the copulation of Europe within 5 days would happen if Russia invaded and if Nato ie; with the full backing of America was not available. I did point out just a couple of items as to how this would occur taken from a highly placed American General giving an insight scenario how it would happen..Perhaps that posting still may show up, hope it does. So don’t knock America, the saviour of Europe both in WW2 and since.

          • Nose, if the OP omits your replies it is principally because you use multiple aliases and have been banned from the forum on numerous occasions previously. You also go off-topic massively. Wise up.

            Regarding the USA, it’s an enigma, a contradiction. It’s the “land of the free” and yet does not even a free healthcare system (the sign of a proper civilization). As you’re dying in the gutter they are asking fitpr your credit card. It’s a country that hates itself, consumes the most, and who punishes patriots like Edward Snowden. It has covered up some truly horrific crimes, one whose anniversary has just passed. It also dropped nuclear weapons on men, women and children. It cannot ever tell the world about how to be moral. Period. These are my opinions on the matter.

  8. Quite right Fred. It is the single market that the Japanese car manufacturers (and thousands of other employers in the UK) rely on and they will relocate to an EU member state if the UK does not stay in that market. People were warned about this.

    Elizabeth, I’m sorry your niece is facing an uncertain future, Brexit was always going to be a huge gamble and nobody knows what form it will take but frankly, I don’t think it was worth the risk. ‘Wait and see’ is about as much good as a chocolate teapot – markets, businesses and individuals do not perform well with that type of uncertainty hanging over them.

  9. The Japanese won’t move until they know the outcome of negotiations between the UK and the EU. They already have a wonderful working force already in the UK with millions invested in the UK so why should they move. Besides they don’t even know the outcome of the EU itself with so many other countries about to hold a referendum with some taking the same stance as the UK. The EU is a slowly dying duck.

  10. Nose,
    the Americans did’nt save Europe and they certainly screwed us over financially. The Soviets saved Europe at the cost of 20 million lives. The Americans wanted to destroy what was left of the British Empire which is why they poured so much money into Germany and allowed hundreds of thousands of Austrian and German mass murderers to escape any punishment, when they should have been hunted down wherever these untermenschen went to ground.

    Spain should have been invaded by battle hardened divisions and all the Fascists exterminated and the Republic re-instated but the fat drunken public schoolboy, Churchill and the anti-democratic Americans would never allow that to happen.

    Brits should concern themselves with punishing those who destroyed our manufacturing base. The motor industry was destroyed by the stupid public schoolboys who would have had a hard job holding down a job as sweepers in the German car industry. We should be looking to a future where electric cars will soon wipe out petrol/diesel models. We could take the opportunity to develop the electric car/truck that is the future. We could stop UK companies being sold to foreigners – try that in Germany/Netherlands or France and see w\hat happens.

    The UK is full of traitors who would sell their mothers if the opportunity arrived and they are the ones waiving the flag, as always.

    The USA and Germany protected their industry with hefty tarifs in the 19th and 20th centuries. The USA did’nt allow the Chinese to dump their subsidised steel, they imposed 500% tarifs. The Eton whores are determined to sell out their country, it is humiliating to see them crawl to the Red Chinese Fascists.

    First Brexit, now the really big one – real change in the UK, it will frighten the serfs but then they are always scared.

    • Well Stuart certain things I do agree with but not like the Russians the Americans and the British did not build a wall and annex their conquest. I also agree with your First Brexit line. As for the rest of your comment you do tend to ramble the same kind of scenario.

  11. “Don’t worry Fred, its not direct payments from the EU or Gov’t or anything mysterious lol, just personal investment decisions which the Brexit vote helped in our case.”

    Well, the pound is crashing so I’m sure you’ve got a lot of financial decisions to make lol. I had a great time in the UK this year, had much more spending power with all my euros.

    • ‘so I’m sure you’ve got a lot of financial decisions to make’ which btw you don’t need to know about, that’s my business, but mind your nose doesn’t fall off lol

      However you’ve by chance hit on a very important point and I’ll give you a clue to some of the others who are benefitting that are friends of ours. You’ve heard about manufacturing and exports, and the UK tourist industry no doubt. Well in these cases our friends of which there are quite a few in business are doing very well. Who knows maybe one of our friends may have benefitted from your visit this year and I’m sure would be very grateful to you. So as you would say ‘it cuts both ways Fred’!

      • Well Mike, if you can’t even tell people what all these Brexit benefits are after eagerly announcing them to the forum – when the Brexit hasn’t even occured – then we know who is shovelling the BS. Staycations are popular for two main reasons – the pound is weak abroad (wonder why doh) and of course global terrorism. I don’t think global terrorism was caused by Brexit. Exports are up, given, but it’s an oh so obvious example. Must try harder Mike.

        • Indeed exports are up. But Britain is having a “fire sale”. The party will grind to a halt when all these “cheap” goods need replacing with a knackered pound. Let’s see how popular British goods are when the shelves are stripped bare and we go cap in hand to Trump for deals, or ship stuff from the other side of the world.
          You’re living in a fools paradise Mike.

          • Stefanjo you’ve ably demonstrated how Remoaners are the fools, they whinge constantly but cannot do anything about the result, rather than get on with it!

          • Of course people can do something about the result. They can complain, they can demonstrate, and the government will take note. That’s called a democracy, Mike. The goverment will also listen to other bodies and institutions, lawyers, and other leaders, and that is why article 50 has not been invoked yet. If the decision to leave was so clear cut, why not invoke article 50 immediately? Laws and decisions are overturned all the time, even, sometimes, referendums. The eventual Brexit deal may not actually be a complete breakaway.

            So you don’t even know what Brexit means Mike, and it is foolish to say you do. By all means tell us what Brexit means.

        • I just knew you prying little mind would send out instructions to your tapping finger to knock out one of your sharp retorts lol ‘much more spending power with all my euros’ so you would have an account in UK to service one of your homes, the Brighton one, not dissimilar to me owning a home in Spain and having an account there, again cuts both ways lol

          BTW did I mention terrorism above? You must try harder!

          Now, do you accept the vote or not, enlighten us all?

          • Mike, I don’t have a home in Brighton- wrong county. Who is prying now lol? Yes, you did actually bring up a reason as to why the “UK tourist industry” has done very well this year, and it is because staycations are popular, and they are popular because of the reasons I mentioned. Do keep up please.

          • Forgot to say, one cannot accept or not accept, a vote. A vote is a vote, it has an outcome. One can disagree with the outcome of a vote, which is the decision to leave the EU, and I do disagree with that. Does that “enlighten” you Mike? It should not, because it’s obvious lol.

          • Fred, you’re quite right your UK home is in the Sth of England lol
            ‘it is because staycations are popular’, staycations were up 11% in July whereas inbound tourism to UK to which you contributed was up 18%, do keep up please.

            Yes it is clear you disagree with the outcome of the vote, however you did say you’d ‘accept the will of the people’ prior to the vote so maybe you are a disenchanted remainer as opposed to a remoaner hopefully.

          • “whereas inbound tourism to UK to which you contributed was up 18%”

            Er, no Mike. Firstly I was not a tourist because I came in on a UK passport and was not therefore counted as a tourist. And yes, I have accepted the will of the people – I have accepted that the majority (who voted) want to leave the EU. But I don’t agree with them.

          • Very pleased to hear you’ve ‘accepted the will of the people’ even though you don’t agree with the majority who voted Fred.

            Pleased to hear that you weren’t counted as a tourist but still changed up your Euros for Sterling as if you were a tourist. 18% increase is pretty impressive though.

          • Mike, 18% is impressive and I wish it was 118%. As I said, I have to accept the outcome of the vote, but you will appreciate many do not agree with it. We’ll all have to wait and see what Brexit actually means as there are so many scenarios. Let us see for how long the voters can be kept in the dark.

  12. Fred, strange how you can reply to the Nose. I also find people that acquire a degree through OU tend to have a one track mind, this is caused by not mixing with students that are full time University students thus mixing with people with different mindsets. Hence wearing blinkers.
    Btw I don’t know of any country that has a free medical system, even the UK does not, it’s called National health insurance. Did you not say even Spain does not have a free medical system and even the pensioners here do not get it free, it’s reclaimed from the UK due to paying through their working lives into the NHS. Thought I should point that out.

    • No, it’s called “The National Health Service” free at the point of use by all. No one is turned away at A&E departments, or left at the Kerb by an ambulance. Never known anyone asked to prove that they’ve “paid in”

      • Eh, stefanjo.
        National health insurance (NHI) – sometimes called statutory health insurance (SHI) – is a legally enforced scheme of health insurance that insures a national population against the costs of health care. It may be administered by the public sector, the private sector, or a combination of both. Funding mechanisms vary with the particular program and country. National or Statutory health insurance does not equate to government-run or government-financed health care, but is usually established by national legislation. In some countries, such as Australia’s Medicare system or the UK’s National Health Service, contributions to the system are made via general taxation and therefore are not optional even though use of the health scheme it finances is. In practice, of course, most people paying for NHI will join the insurance scheme. Where the NHI scheme involves a choice of multiple insurance funds, the rates of contributions may vary and the person has to choose which insurance fund to belong to.

        • Although National Insurance, as part of the PAYE system is levied on all pay packets, it all goes in the same pot, from which the NHS is funded. N.I. of course is a big con, simply designed to make income tax look less than it really is.
          The NHS is free at point of delivery for everyone in Britain, paying in or not. Long may it be so, but with the Barbarians running things, who knows how long that will continue.

    • Oh so it is you!

      And so we are back to the old off-topic chestnut about my post doctorate degree again, which was full-time, just to correct you (again). And here you are saying that I have a one-track mind and yet you can’t stop repeating your old habits. Time to get over it now and move on beyond the ad hominem attacks, Nose.

      The NHS is free at the point of delivery, which was my point. Have you even lived in the UK not to know that? And no, you don’t have to point it out because I already did on a thousand threads before you.

      • ‘”Post doctorate” degree or post graduate degree? I’m not aware of the existence of the former designated degree. Courses, yes, a post -doctoral ‘degree’, no.

          • A post doc is not a degree; its a research position after a bona fide doctorate linked to the same area of research done in the doctoral program, often a requirement to a university teaching position.
            Any other degrees taken after a doctorate are whatever they are, eg, ma, ms, ba, bs, but they not “post-doctoral” degrees.
            I earned a phd, then had a post-doc research appointment in the same field but at another university.

          • Chas, you interpret it in your own way, and I in mine. I did not say it was a special type of degree, I just said it was a degree, post doctorate. You are arguing the semantics of what I said in far too much detail. Relax, neither of us can prove any of what we say, so it’s really a waste of time debating it.

          • Nose, you’ll just have to keep living in ignorance. Bringing the thread off-topic is your style and which got you banned three times before, remember? You really must stop worrying about my studies, flattering though it is.

        • chas, I have never heard of a post doctorate degree in the UK, normally one would after obtaining a doctorate perhaps go into research for a limited period of time and that’s it. This does not include an extra degree, just a job. Naturally one could take a postgraduate course for another field which has nothing to do with a doctorate, just more letters behind the Ph.D.

          • Funny how you popped up out of nowhere Linda lol. So many aliases you use. Any degree studied after a doctorate is a post doctorate degree. A mere description, not difficult to comprehend at all, except of course for those who want to detract from the main subject because their arguments are weak.

          • Same in the USA as I explained above. Language precision in descriptions is, of course, one of the many benefits of doctoral programs, though this standard isn’t always met.

          • Linda it seems like there are several of you calling old Fred out on this degree issue so would be interesting to hear the outcome, is he saying all 3 or you are wrong or is he ‘shovelling b/s’?

          • I’m loving all the attention, just like old times. Meanwhile, Mike can’t even tell us what Brexit means, but his friends are all doing great out of something that hasn’t even happened yet. They should advise Teresa May lol.

          • Fred you crave attention, and you tell porkies, you definitely stated your ‘post doctorate degree again which was full-time, just to correct you (again)’ but then you brought in ‘semantics’ and changed what you said to ‘it was a degree, post doctorate’

            Just for you ‘a post-doctorate is just an academic research job that’s typically done after attaining a PHD. Its not a degree in its own right’

            So, Chas, Linda and Nose are correct and you’ not, are you shovelling b/s again? lol

          • Mike, you can’t troll a subject and then claim the other person is hogging the limelight lol. I never mentioned a degree in its own right, and I can’t help it if you have poor comprehension skills. Desperation on your part.

            Furthermore, I know that you are telling porkies about your ficticious friends who have all gained from a Brexit that has not yet even occured.

      • OMG Fred, what was it you said, “you don’t have to point it out because I already did on a thousand threads before you”. As I have said before, you tend to spend a lot of time posting on OP, can’t be very busy workwise but I suppose you must earn a crust or two. Btw, what was the Phd for as it only covered approximately 90 hrs or so of study. Please don’t tell me you were living on benefits of which I was contributing towards between looking for a job. Besides it was you that stated you gained your degree through Open Uni. and your contacts were made via the internet.

        • I’m off to Spain today for 8 days Fed, when I’m back I could ignore you as is advised or I can feed you if you wish. Whenever anyone challenges what you say including your porkies what do you do, you move the goalposts as you’ve done on this subject with 4 different people. You are a Remoaner and you haven’t accepted the will of the people either, yet another porky from you lol

          You also don’t have the sole rights to your well worn phrase ‘ad hominen’ lol

        • BTW Fred, you’re not in business as you say, or its insignificant if you are because no serious businessman would make such prolific posts on so many subjects for so many years another porky! Are you the OP’s oldest poster?

          • Mike, you have my answers, and you cannot rebut or disprove any of them. Am I going to lose sleep over what you believe? Nope.

            Today I talked to a teacher friend from London who is applying for a college position in Malaga. She has just been told that she needs to be a EU citizen and be a native English speaker. She has also been told by the college that after 2019 it is highly likely that she could no longer apply for that position. That’s Brexit madness for you in a nutshell; people who voted for something they didn’t understand the ramifications of.

  13. The Nose……So the Japanese won’t move until they know the outcome of the negotiations? So that makes it all Ok then because it gives all those staff who work for them a couple of years reprieve before their future is known!!….Make no mistake, if we are not part of a single market they will move because if they chose to remain they would become uncompetitive…My niece who works for Nissan deals with millions of pounds every week and she is far from stupid when she says they will go without hesitation…To be honest our losses will be another EU countries gain..I can just see Spain or even Romania rubbing their hands together hoping they all relocate there and when people in the Uk want to buy cars they will be paying a much higher price for them…I don’t think people realised the consequences of what they were voting for..

    Jane G….I agree, none of it was worth the risk…there could well be 1,000’s of Job losses and all the money which the Uk gives to the EU will have to be used to keep all those people and their families in benefits…

    • Elizabeth
      The subject is too deep. What makes you think we will not be a part of the single market. The main problem is the free movement of people. The rest of Europe are now having big problems regarding this matter and now have barriers stopping the free movements of people yet that nutcase juncker insists we have an open door. You can see daily the problems Europe and the UK are having regarding immigrants and yet you and your niece appear to be more concerned about a job.
      There will be some compromise on this regarding free movement of people providing they have a job to come to. We had it prior to the common market and still have with non Europeans. As for the car industry the Germans and others that produce cars together with other EU exporters are just as concerned about a no trade deal between the EU and the UK.
      I’m not sure but perhaps your knowable niece would know if Nissan moved lock stock and barrel to Europe would they lose sales to North America seeing as the EU has no trade agreement with them, and although the UK also has no trade agreement with N.A our trade with them is twice larger than with the EU. The fear campaign has not happened, as yet, if at all, but my main concern is the democracy and the freedom of the UK and not what some car manufacturer proclaims they may do. As I have said the subject is to deep and we shall have to wait and see instead of flapping and giving our freedom away. As a pensioner living in Spain for over 20 years I really hope it’s a happy ending for all. Remember other EU countries are now thinking the same as the UK in having a referendum, who knows that also may change the tide. Sleep tight.

    • Elizabeth tell that to Cameron, no-one can know the outcome of a referendum he needn’t have called, the risk was his and that of his cronies and it backfired. He thought he could frighten the people ‘again’ as he did in the lead up to the Scottish referendum which worked that time. You seem to ignore the many positive data reports that GB have experienced since the vote much to the dislike of the scaremongers.

      • And you mike, like to ignore the 58% rise in hate crime in Britain, since your precious referendum. (source: Police chiefs’ Council) Not to mention, the recent murder of a Polish national, working in England, who had the temerity to be heard speaking Polish in public.
        The racist bigots now believe they have a licence to kill.

        • I haven’t said I’m ignoring any rate in hate crime in Britain, something you’ve made up again! Neither have I ignored the August articles ‘Germany’s Migrant Rape Crisis Spirals out of Control’ in Zerohedge etc and Germany haven’t even voted to Leave the EU, were you aware of this?

          BTW how is it you don’t understand it was Cameron that called what you say is the ‘precious referendum’ I did not advise him to? However for you, it seems like a ‘neverendum’ lol If you wish to write to him you’ll find he not only quit after saying he wouldn’t but now he’s quit his Witney constituency as well, not sure where he is now.

          • Desperation Mike. Hate crimes in Britain are directly linked to the outcome of the idiotic referendum, giving savage goons the impetus to act out their filthy prejudices. What may or may not have occurred in Germany, would be linked to that countries’ involvement in the large numbers of immigrants unfamiliar with western values.
            One has nothing to do with the other.
            You, like the nose, also suffer from selective memory syndrome. I distinctly remember you accusing me of garnering false information about hate crime, from newspapers and the internet.

          • Mike, I do get fed up with correcting Stefanjo. Typical moaner not only about the referendum but Spain in general. What he should do is pack his bags, waste of space.

    • Good post Elizabeth, delaying the inevitable is a complete cop out and the ridiculous ‘don’t worry, you’ve got two years, wait for the negotiations’ stance is rather like a doctor telling a patient that they have a terminal illness but don’t worry, you won’t die for two years. This is ruining lives, people are living with uncertainty, plans are on hold and there is no guarantee that negotiations will go the way you want them to. Most people had no idea what Brexit would look like and didn’t realise how difficult it would be to leave the EU – my parents certainly don’t have a clue.

      Take this scenario, May triggers article 50 in Jan/Feb next year, we then have two years from that date to work out all the new deals/agreements with other EU member states and then we are out. The terminally stupid David Davis is now admitting that we will not have all the new deals in place before we leave the EU so we will be left high and dry and of course trade tariffs will have to be imposed. Suppose no deal is agreed for expats in Spain within the two year timeframe? They could be left without health cover for example and one whiff of Spaniards having to have work permits to stay in the UK will make negotiations very hostile indeed. Make no mistake, the EU are going to play hardball and the chances of the UK getting an extension past two years is very remote. What a pity this was not discussed in more depth during the referendum campaign although people were warned about car manufacturers leaving the UK post Brexit and dismissed it as ‘Project Fear’.

      We all know that Juncker needs the boot and the EU needs to reform which it will because it cannot continue in its current form but Brexit is not the answer. Now we have ‘Project Reality’, I think most people would be hugely relieved if it was suddenly annouced that Brexit was being ditched.

  14. Fred, there is no interpretation only the correct way, and there is no such thing as “a post doctorate degree”. Look it up and chas was correct. See what I mean about blinkers.`

  15. The Nose…So you imply that all my neice and i are concerned about is A Job? where did i mention “A Job” ? why don’t you read back and see that i talked about 1,000’s of Jobs could be lost…As for immigration? i dont deny that it is a problem but if it appears that i’m more concerned about people losing their livelihood than immigration issues then i guess i should get my priorities right..haha..

    • Em’ Elizabeth. Did you not say, quote,
      “Jane G….I agree, none of it was worth the risk…there could well be 1,000’s of Job losses”
      Btw Elizabeth, if Nissan does intend to move her department to say a EU country would your niece also move, if not she would also lose a job at Nissan’s.
      You’re just as bad as ol’ Fred changing the meaning of wordings.

  16. Em Mr Nose…Yes i did agree with Jane G and say none of it was worth the risk and in my opinion Brexit is not worth anyone losing their job…Yes i did say there could well be 1,000’s of job losses….Read over my words..and NO i have not changed any of the meaning… It’s YOU who is the fool..

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