It’s the security of legality that’s the real problem. Sort that out (some hope) and property will fly, like whatsit off a shovel. People simply do not feel safe buying.

If we’re talking costas with it’s great all year round climate, more people will start buying at some stage if prices go lower. With all this negative DOOM talk, people forget that the weather won’t change. It’s the main reason most people live there. It will pick up. And while this doom talk is all going on, people are living on the costas enjoying themselves, walking around slowly smiling, going to markets…
Just feel sorry for anyone involved in financial trouble, and hope they can manage to stay in Spain!

No Stefanjo, the only problem is (over)supply and (under) demand caused by recession . Legality is a sideshow by comparison.

what a prediction!!!!

Does he know who’ll win the 2.45 at Chepstow next Tuesday, while he’s at it…. :)

The Spanish Housing Market was never anything more than a myth, there was never a real demand for property it was brought about by foreign…mainly English and Irish buyers… cashing in on the ludicrously high valuations on their home properties and then re-mortgaging them to buy 2nd homes…..most of whom could not possibly afford them. This was a financial disaster waiting to happen, and happen it did!Property is only a good investment when it’s primarily built for the indiginous population, i.e. London. Consequently when the foreigners stopped buying there were no other buyers to take their place. Typically, the Spanish banks over extended themselves…due to stupidity and greed( not forgetting a certain amount of “graft” and huge back-handers from those to whom they lent the money)as they have done in the past…and given half a chance would do in the future…..thus helping to create the collapse of this “house of cards” situation. Their housing market was never really there in the past, and it stands no chance of any form of recovery, not in this lifetime or the next. I’m extremely sorry for those individuals who thought that it was a good idea to have a 2nd home in the sun and wound up losing a lot of money but it was a stupid thing to do for most of them, but hopefully they’ll recover from their losses and not make the same mistakes in the future.

I take no pleasure in saying the chickens are coming home to roost for the over development. till a Spaniard in my village is still trying to sell an unfinished house for 300,000 euros, such optimism should be applauded.

Are they are still goig up in Ronda!!!

The market is broken because it is selling a faulty product – fix the laws and systems. Stefano is 100% correct. Fix the systems, make title deeds 100% guarantee then you have a good product. Appoint an independent regulator to monitor real estate agents, zoning laws and lawyers that should assist with cleaning up minor corruption. Low prices in real estate will attract foreign buyers and slowly fix the over supply of real estate and possibly give more jobs to the locals. There are currently 20 million Spaniards that live and work abroad – forgotten market!!!!
The other issue Spain has to fix asap is the banking sector – cancer.

I believe Spain does have a product to sell however not in its faulty state.

What a load of nonsense ! I have been involved in Marbella real estate for 20 years and I agree prices have dropped in some areas but to quote 50% falls and more to come is just scare mongoring. I have been gazumped twice in the last month on bank repossions which proves there are buyers out there and taylor wimpey have sold over 25 apartments in for months on their new development in San Pedro,so it’s not all doom and gloom in Marbella, added to this there have been many sales in la zagaleta which proves the higher end is still buoyant .

Thank you Common sense! what a ridiculous article heading – just to anger people! HALF again… as if.. at the coast!

Common Sense – I wouldn’t brag about being in real estate for 20 years as that means that you have been part of the problem and it seems continue to be.

The properties that are now heavily discounted were never worth what you and others were selling them for to gullible expats and no doubt Spaniards from up North. Sure you enjoyed all that commission while the going/conning was good.

Nobody in their right minds will buy now in Spain unless they are first-timers, are downsizing or want to live here full time.

What is needed is a widespread bulldozing of all the estates not occupied and serious discounting like suggested in the article to at least get rid of the empty properties. Then maybe in 10 years time things might be ok for the odd construcion project.

I see some estate agents are still attempting to talk up the market. Good luck.

Has “Common Sense” never heard the saying “One swallow does not a Summer make”? when he/she talks of being guzumped twice in a month. There are an estimated 1.6 million properties for sale and even though the prices are in free fall they will never be sold. I believe the current expression is “get your head out of your a**e” there is going to be no property recovery since the “South Sea Bubble” that was the last “boom” has burst and is never coming back. Just have a look at how many people are now just walking away from their homes and going back to their various places of birth just so that they can dump their ridiculously high mortgage. Much as I love living in Spain I realise that the only thing that it really has going for it is the weather, I feel that their main problem is that after joining the ridiculous Euro their prices for everything escalated out of control so they lost their tourist industry. Lest we forget, this particular industry was the bread and butter of Spain and until they exit from the Euro, slash all their prices by 75% and get the tourists back they will never recover anything. Spain is not Germany and they cannot possibly be in the same monetary union, get out and get back to how it used to be.

Maybe propertys on the coast will have a realistic value now, greedy people will of course be stuck with negative equity.
Spain always used to be affordable as a second home country and then went mad so now its bitten them on the bum.

Good days will happen again , and I will come back to spain as I hate it in the uk. I miss spain so much warts and all.

complacent spanish are now to have a reality check.

I know we shouldn’t believe a single word estate agents say, but hopefully houses will have a more realistic value now. Down half again though? If that’s not DOOM talk I don’t know what is… and is this helpful?! I’d like to hear more estate agents views to this article on here please.

That’s who we need to hear from, estate agents. That’s the way to get at the truth. Not.

that’s a helpful comment…

Be good to know who’s still selling out there & more stories the better, good or bad

Roger – what Stefanjo is trying to say is that anything you hear from estate agents will not be better, good or bad stories – they will be just stories. They never have and never will tell the truth, especially now. Get an estate agent to admit the market is all but dead would be like Suarez admitting he dives!

If you want stories about how the situation is ok then read the Sur in English online which obviously has a lot of advertising revenue from agents and leave this publication to print the truth.

thanks as well Ian… pointless negative comment

btw, you’ve picked the wrong analogy with today’s Suarez news!!! HAHA

“If you want stories about how the situation is ok then read the Sur in English online read the Sur in English…”

Excellent point Ian makes. Honestly, if you wanted a total fabrication of the property market in Spain, read the Sur In English. Its publications on property and living in the Sun rarely even make mention of the issues affecting Spain, such as illegal builds, land grabs, houses that cannot get electricity, houses that are in legal limbo, the list is endless – and yet none of these problems exist in Sur’s property supplementals. A work of total fiction.

I couldn’t believe the Suarez thing Roger….talk about timing!

I don’t mean to be negative but the truth is there are no positives in the Spanish property market and won’t be until drastic measures are taken. Mind you the country as a whole probably has more to deal with before it tackles that but my gut feeling is that if you can get the property market stimulated by some serious reductions in prices then at least there would be a temporary boost and influx probably of capital from outside Spain.

The problem with us British we were brought up to think profit when we bought a house, if we did not make £50thou on the house we were heart broken. We forgot it was a place to live. There is no money to be made in houses in UK. So if you are happy were you are and do not need to move stay. Think of it this way.You bought 10-15 years ago, if I were to move and only got the money you paid for it. you would saved 10-15 years rent. Sadly there will be people who come unstuck and there will be people who made thousands, but that is life. I think the way ahead now (if you need a UK fix) is to lease your house for 3 month to a year, take your time to find the right people. I am to old now to sell and move, but when I need a Spanish fix I am going to drive down and lease for 3 months. For every crook you have we have 3. Do not listen or read these bringers of doom. enjoy what you have. Just think you could be 20 and think of what they will have to put up with. Work till 70 and pension will be a thing of the past. More drink I say

couldn’t believe the Suarez incident Ian! ha. terrible
Just hoping for any positives in all this. I’m sure buying will take place more this year as prices go lower

just copying and pasting some stats for a region – Personally I’m not surprised people want to live round that coastal area!:

‘Figures released this week by the National Statistics Institute (INE) show that 1,023 homes were sold in Alicante Province in November 2012, a rise of 21.2% over the corresponding period for 2011.

INE says that this was the fourth month in a row that sales have increased in the province while on a national level they have fallen.

Over the four month period between August and November sales increased by 10.1%, 5.22%, 17.87% and 21.2% consecutively.’

Home purchasing, building and renovating is one of the biggest expenses a homeowner will ever make. It is therefore crucially important for the home building industry and real estate industry to function effectively. In Spain, current systems and legislations are not ensuring that consumers are appropriately protected and industry can function efficiently hence the dramatic drop of real estate prices. It is obvious, that the Spanish Government has not acknowledged any comprehensive examination of the legislations and systems needed to take place, and that further reforms are necessary in order to properly address the full range of issues raised by the industry, homeowners and other stakeholders. There has not been a genuine effort by the Spanish Government to fix and deliver a seamless national economy in real estate. In addition jurisdictions have taken the same attitude re Prior case. This sector has in the past been a major player in the economy providing jobs and a strong contributor to the local economies. Given the extent of this activity, it is clear that this market must be activated and still plays a role in the Spanish Economy.

This article has had a special purpose. It has generated discussion on the current issues affecting a broken market and the need for change and possible public proposals for reform. The Spanish government should seek comments on the issued raised and as well as more general comments on the operations of the current real estate broken framework

“Do not listen or read these bringers of doom. enjoy what you have”

Unless you are the Prior’s.

Roger – Figures released this week by the National Statistics Institute (INE) show that 1,023 homes were sold in Alicante Province in November 2012, a rise of 21.2% over the corresponding period for 2011.

ONLY ANOTHER 1 MILLION TO GO.

Fred – Australian market had proven itself to be one of the most resilient housing markets in the world because Australia had some of the most stringent banking controls in the world. Australia also has one of the most resilient title deed systems in the world too.

“http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/economist-tears-roof-off-affordability-study-20130121-2d2e4.html”

“http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf”

So why can’t Spain do the same to fix its economy by copying some of the stringent Australian banking and real estate controls? The global financial crisis has had little to no impact on Australia’s economy.

Aranza, sounds like total sense to me, but then again of course, Spain is a country with no common sense whatsoever lol. Seems like the UK should never have abandonded its commonwealth friends.

Stanza seems to miss out the fact that Australia performs a protectionist state whereby it will not allow free trade from other countries, as a result the cost of living and property prices are through the roof. If you want to live miles away from anywhere then off you go.
The challenge in Spain is simply overdevelopment by small minded greedy bankers, builders and local authorities, supported by Brits who felt they were getting the deal of a lifetime. The message of “If it looks too good of a deal it most probably is” apples to all those people who have been shouting loudest of how smart they have been buying on a rising property market in Spain, most people simply sat back and waited for the bubble to burst.
Property will continue to sell where the investment is a life style decision the challenge will be at what level the volumes will level off at.

Let us not forget the huge Black Money that also fuelled the boom….. People scrambled to pay cash…clean the money by buying real estate…..and they cared little what they paid….so a boom happened..price rose and people got greedy… Result is…NOW

It’s a great time to buy NOW! Rock bottom prices, unfortunately bank repossessions, and hence many different continents loving moving to Spain for the nice climate! Stop moaning everyone and buy these ridiculously priced ‘places in the sun’. Just off for a cerveza!

Roger are you an estate agent? lol

I would like to buy a house in Marbella but will at least wait 1 to 2 year because it still have to drop 50 percent more before it will be normal prices as it should be with so much houses and apartments thats empty,,in the end banks will just push them out for whatever price just to get rid of them.

no fred… but a lot of people have made the move and are living (some laughing) in the sun, as people talk it all down.. maybe keep looking out the window, dreaming of a better, healthier, sunnier life… Well that life is just around the corner! Buy today at great affordable prices! A once in a lifetime offer! Prices slashed! Bank repossessions! and much much more!

Roger, yes a good lifstyle choice but investment no.At the lower end of the market, there are poeple trying to rent their apartments out for 200 to 300 euros per month long term. Holiday rentals are almost dead – look at the availability on owners direct. Take your maintenance costs, mortgage costs etc and the annual bill will run to thousands so when the market has recovered in 10 years the property would have needed to increase to cover the running costs, plus what you could have made if you have rented a property out in a Country where the market is not awash with empty units. My two properties in Spain cost me about £6k a year to run, i.e. I am down £6k per year even after a few lettings and one is mortgage free and the other has 12 months to go. In the UK, you spend £200k on a house and you will receive cira £8k rent, in Spain it is laughable. Owning a property in Spain as a second home is the same as running a Rolls Royce or a static caravan in the UK!

Yes Ivar – wait another 2 years and you will most likely be able to buy at demolition prices. Remember too that it’s not always Location Location Location here in Spain – for some property owners that has transpired to mean Demolition Demolition Demolition, therefore, if you buy at demolition prices then possibly you won’t mind so much if the Junta reduce your property to rubble one day.

Take a look also at what has happened in the UK in high unemployment areas, there you can buy a property for £1. The 1€ property will come to Spain too and when it does, I will laugh my head off at what the authorities have done to the property market here in ‘sunny’ Spain; with their wranglings over the so-called ‘illegal’ homes scandal and threatening innocent property owners with demolition. Don’t forget Len and Helen Prior, their home did get demolished.

So much bad press here that prospective buyers lack confidence in the spanish property market and a ‘fall by a further 50%’ of current valuations becomes somewhat ambitious.

Come on ladies and gents this is so laughable to read all of your comments and the naivety that you represent as so called intelligent people, you are all so indoctrinated by what you hear is beyond belief. Let us add a little more comfort to those living in Spain and introduce a bedroom tax on the unemployed living in a property that has a spare bedroom? That should be good Yes.
Let us give the bankers and politicians an increase in bonuses as they work so hard and will appreciate our understanding, as you know all of the UK politicians, Spain etc. are millionaires but need that little extra for all the hard work that they do, we have to keep them happy.
Demolish a few Brit properties in Spain not a problem as they can always come back home and find a bed sit where they can retire or should I say vegetate too and hopefully die a little early and save our government from paying benefit? That is good Yes.
Let us not forget about the kids who have to return back to the UK or wherever and suffer the indignity and try to explain why mum and dad who made a mistake in their lives and had to return to their place of origin.
I have never seen one bloody comment by anyone expressing their concern for the children, all you hear is adult complaints and am sick of it, YUP.
Most people try to improve their lives and yes there is a little greed in all of us but there are those who take it to the extreme which is sad but is a fact of life.
If there was more attention placed upon the welfare of the children am sure we would all be a little more careful in what we do and try to plan with a more dignified attitude.
Bankers have loaned money to a prospective purchaser and happy to receive the interest on the property that they have purchased but when the bank cocks up and gets bailed out they still want their cake and eat it, SOD OFF
You people living in Spain are better off where you are not in the UK believe me, DO NOT COME BACK

Are you drunk Jim? Far too much hatred. It’s Easter too! wait till Tuesday at least…

My partner and I had considered retiring to Spain. we have decided not to pursue it further for the following reasons.
1. Spain is now the fourth highest taxed in the Eurozone, on average with income tax and local taxes averages around 52%!
Compare with France which is around 41%.
2. Buyers do not feel confident in buying property in Spain, mainly because of bad publicity emerging from the area re crooked lawyers/estate agents, and illegal construction.
3. The economy of Spain is almost certainly (if it remains within the Euro) to follow Cyprus and Greece.
4. High unemployment which is projected to go higher along with most other Euro countries, this will lead to statistically higher crime rates.
5. Huge over capacity of properties, estate agents can talk it up all they want, but, popular consensus is for further falls in the market by perhaps 50%!
6. Unrealistic property prices, vendors attempting to sell at 2007 prices, I am reliably informed by Spanish estate agents that most properties advertised in the region of 250000 Euro sell for approx 50000 Euro less.
7. The main purchases of property in Spain were British and Irish, it may have escaped many of your contributors attention that the English economy is almost as bad as Spain!
8. High unemployment equates to low property values.
9. The UK is seeing fundamental changes in property values with exceptions in some areas (London). Lower wages, bank reluctance to lend on overvalued property, echoes of Spain.
10. The Spanish market with not recover until some of these issues are corrected, my guess is that it may be around 15 to 20 years at best.
11. I am sorry for the expats who are trapped there, hoping for a better life, but, my advice would be to get out now whilst you can salvage something. What happened in Cyprus may well happen there, the Eurocrats and Germans have got away with it, and will do it again, rest assured.
12. Warm weather is not everything!

Man im soooooo happy the greed destroyed the greedy , I Went to Spain 7 1/2 years ago with my family , Sold my 4 bedroom house with extra garden flat & double workshops in South Africa to someone that needed my property to get Hotel rights , and knowing that i still willingly with good concience sold for way less than some greedy estate agent with only status of their own in mind said i could get , why because i knew that some day would come and i would be embarressed to complain about the greed that make man & woman kind monsters , and wouldent want to be part of that. Arrived in Spain changed my Currency for Euros and could not even buy a 1 bedroom appartment that was a piece of sh1 -t .True the euro is way stronger than the Rand but i calculated matterial costs & and all builders rates in

Man im soooooo happy the greed destroyed the greedy , I Went to Spain 7 1/2 years ago with my family , Sold my 4 bedroom house with extra garden flat & double workshops in South Africa to someone that needed my property to get Hotel rights , and knowing that! i still willingly with good concience sold for way less than some greedy estate agent with only status of their own in mind said i could get , why because i knew that some day would come and i would be embarressed to complain about the greed that make man & woman kind monsters , and wouldent want to be part of that. Arrived in Spain changed my Currency for Euros and could not even buy a 1 bedroom appartment that was a piece of sh1 -t .True the euro is way stronger than the Rand but i calculated matterial costs & and all builders rates in South Africa and could not believe the more than 500% price hike .
When i saw that i told my Wife & friends that this will have to fall appart soon or there is something misserebly wrong with the society we live in that no one wants to see the future outcome of this , yet they said man your always seeing the negative .
Being a plumber I see myself as a realist knowing that poeple have more dirt than they pretend to have i always look between the lines with more insight than most intelectuals and just have not learnt how to lie to myself.
My Prediction against all positive poeple 7 years ago was that the propety prices will have to drop a 70% before it makes any sense and if estate agents will be less greedy they will tell their clients its better to be sane as this will only lead to more insanity , enough said i left Spain 3 YEARS AFTER RENTING IN A SMALL REASONABLY INSANE PRICED TOWN BACK TO SOUTH AFRICA WITH A BITTER TASTE IN MY MOUTH WITH A KNOWLEDGE OF THINGS TTO COME AND YES IT DID , I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK BUT SEE THAT VERRY LITTLE HAS CHANGED AND ESTATE AGENTS STILL DELLUSIONED BECAUSE OF GREED.
GOOD LUCK FINDING MORE EMBECILES.

The problem in Spain is the same as uk.Run by criminal bankers and politicians and the law is made by politicians and should be smashed by the fists of the people who are facing the results of these Hitlerite lovers of money without any principles.When the people have a leader they will turn against these criminals with brutal force. And everyone should contribute to what they consume,food housing clothinf,medical care under doctors and not hitlerite bureaucracy who will be thrown out and be forced to work in production only and double the GDP of the country and supermarkets will be forced to buy in uk to create employment. Any attempt by the liars to stand in the way of progress will be punished only by physical means.

Anyone for Pimms?

Thanks Mr boynnn, but it’s going to take more than a tonic!

Yes the tonic of time. Property prices are highly correlated to successful economies and I can’t see one of those on the horizon. Ok Germany is still selling a lot of sour kraut but they like to buy in enclaves not roast beef resorts. The last bad property crash in the uk was 1990, it took 5years before prices stabilised, this in an economy inherently stronger than Spain’s. With the glut of properties plus the poor,if not dire, Spanish economic outlook I can’t see a pick up for a long long time. My caveat being a total crash to levels below net cost to build new as outlined by Bellod, in these circumstances there will be a quick turnaround as in the States. Even so this tonic will have many choking on their all day breakfasts.

Hi,
I’m one of those poor souls trapped in the confusion of thinking of still moving to the Andalucia or Granada regions….
Some of what is written scares the hell out of me!!!….but I also think the time for making profit on property is long gone ANYWHERE!

My question is this…as first time buyers of property in Spain, we plan to live there, but I want to continue to work in the UK for a few more years. How can we avoid the pitfalls?… And if we look at a property, say valued at €300,000, what offer do we make??….do we offer €200k?..or less!!! Where do we get a realistic independent accurate value of what we’re buying??

Avoid the pitfalls ? here are my suggestions.
1.Spend time in the area and not just one week or two ,get a good feel for the area .
2. choose an area of mixed nationalities – english enclaves just attract problems
3. learn the language or at least make an effort to do so
4. buy a house over ten years old , preferably one that has been owned by a german ( you will hate the decor but its guaranteed to be legal – so fussy them germans )
5. choose and agent with an API number
6. P

Steve,
there have been so many articles about the truly bad building practices in Spain – why are still intent on buying one of these.

First look online at best building practices. Check also areas that you would be stupid to buy in – at the bottom of mountains that have been deforested, landslides with heavy rain / or that are prone to brush fires, which have been common for hundreds of years in many areas of Andalucia.

You want to live in the Granada area – check out “www.xella.com”, they have a depot in Granada, see if they sell the aercrete flooring and roofing beams as well as the blocks then you will have a fireproof and properly insulated house very important in the Granada area which has very hot summers and very cold winters. PV and solar heated hot water are completely viable in that area – do not have anything installed by Spanish ‘builders’ or cowboy English builders – look for local German builders, they will be able to produce German dimplomas.

You will be able to build a very good quality home for way less than €200,000. Right now land with proper building consents can be bought for a song as the market will take an awful long time to recover.

Do not believe what mayors/lawyers tell you – you need to personally check with the Junta – if you do not, you deserve all that will undoubtedly happen to you sooner or later.

Yes Granada province has some awesome landscapes especially between Granada and Guadix,just don’t let this blind you to proper research and check and double check everything.

Or you can buy a cheap crap built property that has the ‘appearance’ of looking nice.

Do not look to buy into a ‘dream’ you will wake up to a very real nightmare but this applies to buying/building a home anywhere – reality, first and last.

Thanks for the replies :)

As someone who is considering buying in Andalucia I’m finding all the very negative attitudes to the idea a bit daunting!
I can see that you have to have your wits about you in buying any property, anywhere, and that the apparent unregulated practices in the Spanish housing/legal professions even more reason to be cautious.

But surely there are reputable agents, there are reputable, honest, and thorough solicitors??? Surely???

Many Brits have already bought properties, many have obviously made mistakes, but the process is possible surely? What I’m after is a bit of guidance towards a reputable agent, and honest solicitor.

I’m beginning to wonder if there isn’t a lot of aggressive attitude connected to the Spanish housing market from owners who have lost hundreds of thousands of pounds in the market crash, and are understandably annoyed with their experiences. Marry that with the obvious unsteady climate, with possible/probable future price drops, I can understand their anxiety…or is that me just being green as grass in the matter???

We’re hoping to settle in the Inland Malaga, or Costa Tropical areas, and have decided to either rent a house for 6 months if possible, or vist for long weekends 1-2 times a month staying in hotels in different areas. That way we’ll have a chance to get a feel for different areas, and narrow our searches, and have a chance to view some properties.

I’m not too perturbed that moving to Andalucia would be a mistake…I’m sure it wouldn’t. I’m going to semi-retire, my partner to become a lady of leisure :) the climate and culture would suit us I’m sure. It’s the house buying and legal side that concerns me….

Steve

It’s definitely not that bad Steve. Just a few of the usual miserable imps on here above who’ve been stung probably.

Go for it! Holiday over by the area you’re interested in though and talk to locals as much as you can to recommend estate agents etc. Ask them what their problems were. Some had problems, some had none. Granada area is great, as is the city itself!!! Stay at the coast then stay high up inland to experience the different climates. So much at the coast in Andalucia these days, and yes cheeky offers always. Unfortunately I’d investigate bank repossessions too. ASK ASK ASK and don’t be scared off the place by any comments on here.

A ‘very real nightmare’ for me would be being forced to move back to Grey Britain!

A lot of the anger on here Steve is just because it’s a forum – people acting up on computers (imps). Face to face most people on here would seem a lot more appeasing probably.

Fantastic areas you’re thinking of!

Thanks for that :)

We’re going to see about a weeks break out there soon if possible.

I don’t know anyone over there, but I do know of someone who lives there, who I could maybe ask? Though I don’t know them very well at all.

Why do say ‘unfortunately’ you’d investigate bank repossessions?….I thought that’s the greatest chance of a bargain?
Although getting well ahead of myself here….what would be an acceptable guideline for an offer on the asking price?…10%,20%,30%…more?!? I know each property is different, but I’m trying to gauge what prices we can look at that would relate to an actual sale price. For instance I’ve read that they’re after €300,000 for some property, but will never get it, so therefore the selling price is lower..maybe much lower!! Are we talking €200,000 in those circumstances, or is that way off the mark.

Thanks, Steve

Steve,
You have a great plan i.e renting first and moving around to find your ideal location.
You are in a brilliant position with time on your side, there is no need to rush. What’s that saying, ‘Purchase in haste and repent at leisure’ or is that about marriage? Maybe that boat has sailed but don’t rush into Spanish home purchase when you can buy today and buy cheaper tomorrow. If you really are tempted offer at least 30% below asking price and move up the offer as necessary but definitely be prepared to play hard ball. Keen to buy myself but I’ll follow your lead. Keep us updated on your search. Good luck.

Hi Steve – just meant the unfortunate situation people face with repossessions these days.. but while it’s going on there’s some bargains out there lately. Look around and good luck! Don’t spend years looking though – Those years could be spent living in Spain. Use estate agents as much as you can to take you around places. I think the too high amount of 5% is the going rate in Spain. Make sure they don’t charge 8-9-10%+ as some try to do! If they’re reputable they should take care of the whole sale properly and do any translating needed. You have to trust some people sometimes. Locals should tell you who’s dodgy and who’s not. I think you’re right with the prices too. Also avoid anywhere on a half built coastal estate where cranes are stood idle close by.

“Locals should tell you who’s dodgy and who’s not”

lol.

Thanks for all that, some great advice in those replies, and I’ve been greatly encouraged by them.
We’re sure that the move would be great for us, and although sensibly nervous, are getting excited about the prospect of living there.
We’re very open to areas, although feel those areas that we’ve picked seem right for us.
The help on price guides was great. It’s a minefield just knowing what price the properties should be that we’re looking at (allowing for offers). We’re certain of the maximum we’re prepared to go to as a purchase price, but realise that the houses we could be looking at could be vastly outside that budget.
I guess we’ve made the first step, because we’re pretty sure we want to move to Andalucia. The next steps are daunting, but with some help we’ll get there :)

Fred you ARE funny! keep at em

With people like Mr A giving advice one can quickly see why so many expats are up sh*t creek without a paddle lol.

Latest news on Spain’s current housing stock for sale is that it has grown from 2 million to 2.25 million (a jump of 12.5%) according to RR de Acuna and Associates based in Madrid.

So, Common Sense and Roger, many property prices have fallen 50% because they were over-valued in the 1st place, they are predicted to fall further, and, another quarter of a million on the market will put further downward pressure on prices as will the bad bank Sareb when it starts off-loading it’s 1000′s.

Talk it up if you will but you can’t hide the statistics.

Let’s hope the Eurozone doesn’t break-up too meanwhile, so the wise guys and gals do not keep their money in Spain, other than day to day living money, they’re sending it to Germany and other safer countries.

Sorry to be gloomy, but newcomers need to know the truth which agents won’t tell you.

Paul,
you are telling the truth which means that you will be attacked by all those with a vested interest in selling/letting.

I looked at Steve’s replies – he is refusing to let go of ‘the dream’. The banks will not tell you that they are trying to offload illegal properties.

All those commenting about Spanish property who have zero experience in construction or who have cowboyed/bodged work on an old property – I know I have laughed at what I have seen.

There is nothing like Building Regs. Part 2 in Spain.

The idiots who rec. living behind the Snowy mountains without mentioning that the climate is totally different from the Med coast – we loved the cold dry winters but the summers were a impossible for those who love an outdoor life.

If it was possible to buy legitimate land to build it is the Alpujarras or the Lugros Canyon, simply because altitude means far less heat in summer. I would build using the right materials and PV for electricity and solar panels for hot water with a wood burning stove for back-up in winter and of course for cooking.

There is a unique hotel in the foothills above Guadix – the Patio de Lugros run by Rafael and Eva his German wife. It is reached via a canyon drive that you would think was somewhere in northern Europe and is simply fantastic.

It was one of only 3 alternative energy hotels in Europe and is a wonderful base to explore the Comarca de Guadix and the Alpujarras can be reached by a road about 30K away. google for all info and booking – I have no financial interest in this hotel but can vouch for comfort, location and blissful silence that a stay there provides.

As to Granada it is probably my favourite city anywhere but that is because I have friends who know what the craic is – as my friend Enrique said “in Granada everything is possible”. Maybe this year we will get to visit but not before late autumn – forget the summer it will slaughter you with heat.

The negative which applies to anywhere in Spain is the dysfunctional economy, they are so far behind that they will never catch up now. The health system is very good but now has no money – never under estimate the importance of this as you get older.

Thanks for all the replies.

I’m not blinded by ‘the dream’ I don’t think? We’re just starting the first steps that will hopefully make it a reality, or resign it as just a dream.
The first steps include finding out as much information, opinion, and advice, as you can, good or bad.

The first impression is that we need to be cautious. We’ve decided if, and I think it’s more a when, we move out to Spain we’re going to rent for a year, and rent out our property in the UK. That rental income should cover the costs both here and there. That way we find out if it’s for us, if the heat is too unbearable, or anything else that may alter our opinion of living abroad.

It’s not like we’re going into this blindly. We’re aware of the obvious troubles spain is in, and the obvious implications that might arise from that.
The thing is, unless somebody says DO NOT BUY IN SPAIN then the opportunity to do so is still there. Am I to believe that 100% of house purchases in Spain are on illegal houses, or part of a widespread corruption to offload worthless property???? I can’t believe that is so! A percentage maybe, a large percentage maybe, but I can’t believe it is just ‘a racket!!’ If it was, and I may be being green here, the EU would have to step in under illegal trading laws???

If you buy in Spain without taking precautions I can imagine that you are heading for a fall!

As regards house prices…..if I’m looking at a property, at let’s say €2000,000, I would not offer that. I would offer at least 20-35% less than that, maybe more. This would then negate any future drops slightly. Also remember that the purchase wouldn’t be for another 12-18 months, when our rental period would be over, so it would also be judged on what will then be ‘the future drop’ that is before us now.
The other point to note, is that I’m buying to retire, it’s not a holiday home, and it’s not an investment. If after a year we still love it there then we will probably not be returning, and thus not ever sell the property we buy. So therefore the value would not become an issue. More of an issue to us would be social degradation…and to be honest that’s a problem in the UK too!!! But so long as we were happy, then we would be ok.
You’d have to remember that we’d have bought a very cheap property in a years time (most probably!), certainly compared to the UK, so if a cheap property drops in value it is not such an issue. Again, the standard of our life would be far more important. That wasn’t the case in the boom, or prior to the illegal property situation, where people were investing a lot of money to find out that it was not worth anything like it, and even what it was worth couldn’t be obtained cos you couldn’t sell it! If I was in that situation I’d be aggrieved myself!! We however, are going to be buying when prices are low, very low…maybe in a years time ridiculously low! So the risk on that front is hugely lower.

We’re not going into this blind, or without thinking it through. We realise we’ve only just started the journey, and have a LOT to learn! But I can only try to get as much information, honest information, as I can. I need to find respectable, honest agents and solicitors, and I’m sure there must be some???!?!? Like I’ve said, in about 12-18 months after renting I’m sure we will be a lot wiser in many areas! But during these first steps I’ve heard from as many who have made the situation work for them, as I have from people who haven’t…..I just need to do lots of research so that hopefully I can become of the ones that do make it work.

Stuart, the ‘big-up Spanish property contingent’ do not bother me in the slightest, I’ve got broad shoulders, I fully expect them to go on the attack. To see it from their blinkered point of view is that their incomes depend on it, and many (not all) will carry on duping any naive Brit, or potential purchaser that ‘now is the time to buy’, with the dire exchange rate for Brits and huge rising over-supply of properties prices are predicted to fall further.

Not forgetting, what other assets are people expected to pay an 11% transaction cost for buying and more like 5-6% for selling? You have to make 20% increase just to break even, if you need to re-sell, madness!!

Stuart, I posted a reply to you on here with some more of the truth but it seems like the moderator does not like the content which is factual, maybe it’s for commercial reasons, hey ho!

Steve, sounds like you are on the right track. It could be a good lifestyle choice and as long as you make sure the property you are buying is fully legal with the Junta then you should be OK. You can make any offer you like but you should get an idea of what is a good deal or not by looking around. If someone offered me 30% less I would not deal with you anymore as I would not overprice by 30% in the first place, but of course some agents add 30% on for themselves. You will know what is the correct price when you start looking.

Steve,

You are quite correct in trying to find good straight professionals. I suggest you start looking for an International Lawyer based in this country with a Partner based in Spain. Don’t use a local Spanish based lawyer for obvious potential vested interests, conflicts etc. If you use a lawyer based in the UK, and they mess up, at least you have recompense through the UK courts. Paul made an excellent point regarding buying and selling costs. However maybe a small loss for a new life style is acceptable for you. We all buy cars and lose money on them but don’t bat an eyelid, when we lose a little on a property we feel hard done by!

Steve, just remember that you cannot research everything when buying a house and then complying with all the laws to be resident (which you’ll be when you live here more than 183 days). Good luck to you, but I’d personally be doing the opposite if I were you.

Fred, in what way can you not comply with the laws in buying a property because you are resident in the country??
And what do you mean by doing the opposite??…do you mean that you’d buy first rather than rent?..or that you’d move to the uk rather than to Spain??

Can someone please give me the main issues in moving to Spain????

I know that it’s uncertain/unstable at the minute…but it’s not so great in the uk either!!!

steve…DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks pg….can you just list why not???

I, like Steve, have thought about moving to Spain and taken one important additional step. Yes, the observant among you can probably figure it out for yourselves. For the ones at the back it is this: I have just moved to Spain. Renting for a year. I am weighing up the options on buying given the economic circumstances. Ooh, how contrarian. The key phrase here is weighing up.

Here is my short take on the situation (It is late and I should really be going to bed).

1. The economy is weak, but not broken. Though with 25% unemployment, I could be wrong on that. Result: potential buying opportunity if prices react.

2. The housing market is opaque: prices listed do not reflect true value. Result: homework needed

Which brings me to this conclusion. The price of a house must be calculated as with any other investment. The returns versus the risk.

I need to know the yield I can get on my investment (and when I say investment, I intend to live here – but I will only do it at a sensible price). Yield is calculated as annual potential rent less running costs and taxes divided by price. Someone higher up pointed on a year-on-year loss of owning despite having no mortgage to pay. This needs to be verified in MY due diligence. If this is the true case, I will pass. This is NOT an investment.

Annual potential rent will begin to set a sensible rate for investment price. If the property is 100k and you get 5k rent net (net means after costs and taxes), then your yield is 5%. 5% is about average for UK houses (but not a great return). The more important thing as I know you are all saying is that a return on investment of 5% is not really stellar if that investment subsequently falls in value by 50%. Go on, do the math/s. However, if it does fall and you have a mortgage on it, at least the cash inflow will pay that off if you decide to move on. That is the theory.

So, given the absolutely huge oversupply (and there is more coming according to my sources), the weak economy / high unemployment / shrinking population I need to be compensated for my risk. That is all. Otherwise I will continue to rent for as long as I live here.

And Steve… looking to move to Spain here is my advice to you:

Rent out your property in the UK and use the cash to rent long term here. Do not buy unless you find an attractively priced property in an area that you know and want to stay in. There will most likely be opportunities in distressed investment properties from the bad banks, cajas and private sellers who will take almost any price and sometimes sell the good with the mainly bad, plus you could probably secure a deal if it is in their interest. It is unlikely you will find true bargains through estate agents, they are compensated as a fraction of the price so they tend to like a higher price. In short, understand the market, think long term and run the numbers.

That said, I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion, the view points and will check back in soon. Good night.

“Fred, in what way can you not comply with the laws in buying a property because you are resident in the country??”

You can comply, but you won’t know what you have to comply with. What I said is that you can spend years researching Spain only to find that there are crucial aspects that you did not find out about. It all depends if you are coming here for retirement or to work, and if you can support yourself. Regarding doing the opposite, I meant look at another country. Only my opinion, feel free to ignore. I don’t want to put you off. I’ve been there and felt your excitement. Hindsight eh?

And he fails to take into account that all Spanish property is crap built, so expect lots of repair/replacement costs in the future.

All forms of energy are going up in price – Spain has no gas or oil you need to factor this into the equation as a Spanish home will have zero insulation so air conditioning in summer and lots of heat required in winter.

As always the English take no account of water, taking it for granted, very silly for anywhere in southern Europe – read any of the accredited papers on desertification.

The economy is definately broken – it pays to read regularly probably the best financial publication in the world – the FT.

The banks are broken and will soon need an even bigger bailout than before.

The jobs that Spain lost were supply side not export production.

I agree that renting is the only route to take and hang on to your UK residence. Do not forget that responsibility for all insurance rests with the renter – Spain like other countries is not the UK. When you leave the UK, leave the UK mentality behind – it has zero value in another country.

Thanks Fred and Mr Just Moved… :)

Fred,
I think I’d be a fool to go into this light headed. I can do research, and in that way I can be acclimatised to the prospect of buying/living in Spain, but when it comes to the purchase I will get the best lawyer and advisers I can get, or find. I would be a fool to do otherwise, in any country.

We plan to rent for a year. I wasn’t initially enamoured with that option, but as the dust has begun to settle it seems the only logical, sensible, option.
I am moving there to semi-retire…I will ‘commute’ to the UK until 2017 to work, but my partner will give up work and reside there full time. In 2017 we will both retire then, even though we will be relatively young (50′s/late40′s).
Once our property in the UK was sold, even after the purchase in Spain, we would have more than enough (hopefully) savings to support ourselves into later life.

We have considered other countries. I’m well travelled, and driven extensively through Europe. I love Slovenia. Like Slovakia, Montenegro,Croatia, even Bosnia! But Spain offers much more than them, even with the recession. Prices in those countries have still remained high (maybe unrealistically high?). This greatly effects the savings left to support ourselves. I also feel that, again despite the recession, Spain offers a more reassuring place to settle, especially for my partner.
She’s Italian, and very aware of the bureaucracy, corruption, and red tape involved in living in countries similar to Italy/Spain. She does feel that moving to countries like Slovenia, Slovakia etc feels too remote in itself, too Eastern European. She feels reassured with Spain being mainland Europe.

As regards the property as an investment?…to me it will be a home. The standard of life, living environment, and general experience will be far far more important to us than its future value.
On that subject, I do think that people forget that property in the UK has slumped too! From it’s peak, at about the same period of Spain’s, my house has probably lost about 10-20% of its market value!!! This is a world recession, not a recession specific to individual countries.

As each day goes by we seem to be feeling the process we need to follow, and feel is right for us, becoming clearer and clearer :)

Stuart,

Surely that ALL Spanish property is ‘crap built’ is a broad generalisation??

I realise that we will be reliant on electricity, and don’t expect a gas supply. I’ve been told that electricity bills are low in Spain, but rising….but still substantially lower than in the UK. Service costs in the UK are ridiculous now!!!
I would be looking seriously into solar power too if the property didn’t have it already.

I fully expect to leave the UK mentality behind…it’s the main reason I’m thinking of leaving the UK. Although I’m not ‘blinded by the dream’ in Spain, I also wonder if UK living is as good as its cracked up to be?