Well if the Spanish government reformed it’s tax system and actually sent out bills they might collect more tax. We are in the 21st century and to rely on tax being paid by gazing into a crystal ball is ridiculous. I hadn’t received any bills for my rubbish so I asked at the town hall shake of the head and told to enquire at the bank no joy there and told to ask town hall. Finally I went to the local office of APAT surprise surprise yes we have 3 bills here for you…medieval! Spain get your country in order if you want people to pay taxes, relying on people who want to pay their taxes having to go from office to office to track down a bill is no way to run a modern country.

Peter,

You are spot on, they seem to think tax will be collected by osmosis

I went to pay a parking fine 6 months ago, they told me it wasn’t on the system yet and they would send the bill when it was, so far.. nothing.
They don’t have a brain cell between them.

Michael: next thing you know they’ll embargo your bank account for non-payment!

when we first bought our peice of land and house we had two plots together, our crafty spanish neighbour had been paying the ibi on the second plot as after i think 5 years he could have claimed it as his.

None of this surprises me in the least..it’s the most ludicrous ‘system’imaginable. To expect expats in a foreigh country, perhaps with little or no understanding of the language, to try and find out IF they owe money to anyone and therefore pay it is nonsensical. But then what can you expect in a region where thousands of people don’t even have ‘proper’ addresses and there is no postal service?? (I used to be one of them!) To paraphrase what someone else has already said…..Andalucia: get real!

no excuses. When you buy property in Spain you are made aware (or should be by your agent or solicitor) of the tax obligations.
Many people claim ignorance as an excuse for not paying. There are too many people getting a big tax free return on their undeclared rental incomes.
If everybody paid their taxes in the first place then maybe the tax bills wouldn’t be so high. Infrastructure has to be financed and those who don’t pay tax are the first to complain about the poor services such as the police, schools etc.

do you have to pay if your house has been made illegal so in turn doesnt exist , you cant pay tax on something that doesnt exist , can you ?

@ean briggs
I think you are sanctimoniously missing the point, nobody commenting on here is advocating not paying their taxes quite the opposite, they want to pay their taxes via a simple system not having to go to the town hall or APAT office and beg to be given a bill. If you think all ex pats are given a list of all the taxes they have to pay, where to pay and on what date they are due I’m afraid you are living in some fantasy world.

Totally agree Peter @Jean. That’s EXACTLY what I was trying to say…it’s a ludicrously difficult task just to find out what you owe!!! (BTW Jean…..I think the original point was being made about people who DON’T actually rent their houses out, but are technically non-resident…..hey ho; they’re all sinners, obviously, lol!)
And it’s also a good point about the ‘illegal’ houses……if they say they ‘don’t exist’ then how can they make people pay tax on them??!!!

If everybody paid their taxes in the first place then maybe the tax bills wouldn’t be so high.

you don’t say Jean. Any other snippets of genius?

@Jean Briggs – you’re the only person who has made any sense in this; and look at the vitriol you get in return.

You’re absoluately right – if people want to live in a foreign ncountry, then they need to abide by it’s rules. If you don’t understand the language, learn it, or pay someone to guide you. If you don’t understand the tax system, there are plenty of people out there who will sort it out for you, for a fee. And if you don’t want to pay the fee, then you can always go back to the UK where you understand the system, the language et al.

Spain’s in a financial nightmare. It needs to raise funds. There’s no point in taxing those who can’t afford it (although that hasn’t stopped them trying), but it makes sense to tax those who can; and non-resident owners definitely fall into that category.

If you can’t stand the heat – well, probably shouldn’t be here in the first place.

It is worrying that you can be embargoed for something that you didn’t know you owed! This has happened to a friend of mine who did not receive notification of a traffic violation by post! Our post is very infrequently delivered.

Tim…you’re missing the point too.NO-ONE is saying expats should try to avoid paying tax — the issue is, that they should perhaps expect to be told what to pay and to whom. Not much to ask. And have you ANY idea how many shysters there are in Andalucia who ‘know everything’ and ‘charge a fee’….then tell the poor bamboozled expat a load of rubbish??? Plus, given that the Spanish officials themselves often don’t understand the system, and that you can go to two different ‘officials’ of a government department and be told two completely different things,really, you’re on a hiding to nothing.
Can you imagine the utter chaos if other countries, such as UK, waited for people to come forward and offer to pay taxes they may or may not owe???
Julie…you’re quite right. It is a nightmare…….where I was, there WAS no post and this is pretty commonplace. A builder friend of mine had 10,000 euros taken from his bank account (put there as a stage payment for a big job he was doing) because he ‘allegedly’ owed Social Security….took him six months to get it back when they found they had made a mistake….plus he very nearly lost the client (understandably).