Atletico Madrid fans’ anti-British Gibraltar poster

LAST UPDATED: 3 May, 2014 @ 10:14
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Atletico Madrid fans’ anti-British Gibraltar poster

ATLETICO Madrid fans held up posters demanding the British leave Gibraltar when they hosted Chelsea in the recent Champions League semi-final.

The British territory has always been a tetchy subject for Spaniards, who believe it should belong to Spain.

And they made their views clear to the traveling Chelsea fans, with posters and chants.

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37 COMMENTS

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  1. Why comments like this are allowed to be published is beyond me.

    Imagine a Spanish person reading this website for the first time, or a forum in England saying how low class the English are.

    Disgraceful!

  2. If Gibraltar suddenly became Spanish, what difference would it make to the life of the guys holding up poster? – None, Spanish propoganda obviously works on these guys.

  3. Propaganda puppets. Fact is it isn’t and they will have to live with it. Thousands of unfortunately silent Spaniards live quite happily with it, holding decent jobs in Gibraltar while Spain struggles with 35% unemployment and rising. Not to mention the many businesses that profit from Gibraltar. The La Linea guys who fitted my kitchen do 60% of their jobs in Gibraltar.

  4. What can we expect of a Facist country who have no idea what democracy is. Gibraltar has been British for more than 300 years and its people have democraticly voted to remain British.
    Pity they did make posters asking Ceuta and Melilla to be returnef back to Morocco.

  5. I think it is wrong to compare Spain with a fascist country, Ceuta and Melilla with Gibraltar and UK with a democracy.

    I admire the UK goverment system; It is a parlamentary system, It´s not a democracy.

  6. @ Liz Balban

    You need to tone down the bile and hyperbole and face the facts.

    The UN lists Gibraltar as a territory that the UK must decolonise irrespective of the wishes of its current population.

    Under international law there are limitations to the right of self-determination. This is the reason why the UN and even the UK has refused to accept that Russian colonists living in Crimea have any legal right to determine the nationality of that territory, notwithstanding the result of the recently conducted referenda.

    The current population of Gibraltar is also not indigenous, having its origin in British settlers and other persons who had come from abroad to work and trade in the British colony; the original population of Gibraltar having been expelled from the territory by the British in 1704.

    Numerous UN General Assembly resolutions have demanded that the UK negotiate with Spain the decolonisation of the territory of Gibraltar. None of these resolutions have ever mentioned any rights of the local population to participate in those discussions. Instead, these resolutions consistently support Spain’s argument that the territory falls under the paragraph 6 exception in UN GA resolution 1514 which proscribes a right to self-determination in certain particular cases.

    This is because the UN does not accept that Gibraltar’s current occupants are the true population of the territory but instead are a community artificially created from heterogeneous origins by colonial processes by the occupying colonial power – the UK.

    Resolution 2353 for example, expressly states that rights over the territory of Gibraltar should be resolved without the participation of the local population. Significantly, that resolution followed a plebiscite in which the population of Gibraltar was given a choice between continuing its present ties with the United Kingdom or reverting to Spanish sovereignty. Notwithstanding the fact that the occupants of the territory of Gibraltar voted overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining their present status, the resolution, declared: “[T]he holding of the referendum of 10 September 1967 by the Administering power [was] a contravention of the provisions of [the] General Assembly namely Resolution 2231(XXI) of 20 December 1966.”

    A second referendum held in November 2002 was similarly not recognised by the UN GA, which called instead for continued negotiations between the UK and Spain (see GA Dec. 57/526 (2002).

    By the way, unlike Gibraltar, Ceuta and Melilla are not considered to be colonial enclaves by the UN. They are not listed on the UN list of territories awaiting decolonisation.

    These territories pre-exist the creation of the Moroccan State – they were Spanish hundreds of years before Morocco existed. In contrast, Gibraltar was colonised by the UK while it was an integral part of the Kingdom of Spain.

  7. Furtherbeyond, the original people of Gibraltar are morocans and have been expelled by the spanish. Spain has no legitimity to claim what’s not theirs…

  8. @FurtherBeyond

    Rather than tell others what they should “tone down”, I would suggest a crash course in basic facts.

    The UN does NOT list Gibraltar as “a territory that the UK must decolonise irrespective of the wishes of its current population”. It simply lists Gibraltar as a non self-governing territory. The UN decolonisation mechanisms of independence, free association or integration then apply. To suggest that any of these mechanisms can be implemented without adherence to the wishes of the Gibraltarians – who have been the “current” population of Gibraltar for longer than the USA has been in existence – reveals a rather weak understanding of the basic tenets of democracy and international law.

    But this could all be resolved rather easily. Let the UK and Spain take the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht (the ancient document which Spain uses as the sole basis of her claim on sovereignty) to the ICJ for a legal opinion, particularly in the context of whether that document should be allowed (or not, as the case may be) to impede Gibraltar’s decolonisation via the UN measures described above. Gibraltar would be happy to do so. The UK would be happy to do so. But not Spain. How curious…

    But anyway, I seem to digress. Gibraltarians couldn’t care less if two Atletico Madrid fans who inhabit the lunatic fringe of Spanish nationalist politics want Gibraltar back. But it might cause them to wish Real Madrid well in the forthcoming final ;)

  9. Hey FurtherBeyond, GIBRALTAR IS NEVER GOING TO BE SPANISH.
    The people of Gibraltar don’t want to be part of Spain, the UK is never going to hand it back to you. Spain is a weak third world country. The UK military would kick your arses into next year in any fight. Just forget it, ok?

  10. @ Further Beyond.

    You do get around. Nothing you have just stated is true.

    There is no UN resolutions demanding negotiation between the UK and Spain – they ask for talks to settle any dispute, they are neutral.

    The UN Sec – General stated that the UK was not in breach of any UN resolutions.

    The decolonisation options listed in the UN do not include passing a territory to another country against the will of the people.

    The UN did not put Gibraltar on the list – the UK did. At the time it was a colony ran by the UK and by putting Gibraltar on the list it gave them rights and a voice in the UN. Today it is self-governing.

    Gibraltar was ceded by treaty in perpetuity(forever/siempre)
    and has been British longer than it’s been Spanish.

    There is only one forum that can hand sovereignty of Gibraltar to Spain and that is the UN ICJ. It is the only option for Spain but for some reason they have never taken their case to the court – perhaps they know they would lose?

    The UN ICJ has given four advisory opinions and one precedent that states all NGSTs on the UN list have the right of self-determination and territorial integrity cannot limit this right. The UNGA also voted down Spain’s attempt to limit self-determinaton in 2008.

  11. You guys need to learn to look at a situation from the other person’s viewpoint, if the Spanish had been granted Land’s End for example under the treaty of Utrecht and continually paraded their navy in and out, along with visits by members of their royal family, not to mention preventing fishing in the area by British fishermen, how do you think it would go down in Ol’ Blighty? I imagine the Chelsea supporters might have had a few not so pleasant songs and posters of their own, at the very least. I also don’t imagine Margaret Thatcher would have left it exclusively to diplomatic representation as the Spanish have. Just a genuine neutral observation.

  12. @ FurtherBeyond…Very interesting post..But I think the criteria observed by the UN, according to your explanation, is inconsistent with today’s ideals of governance and, most people’s understanding of what democracy should represent, as demonstrated by the latest deliberations of Artur Mas and Alex Salmond.

    If the UN does not recognise the current occupants of Gibraltar as the true population of the territory but a community artificially created by the processes of colonisation, then the same argument could, theoretically, be said of the USA and that most volcanic of hot potatoes Northern Ireland.

    As I understand it Spain ceded Gibraltar to the British by virtue of the Treaty of Utrecht, and according to the Fordham International Law Journal, UN resolution 1514 claims Gibraltar has the right to self determination and the Spanish claim to territorial integrity does not supersede this right.

    Unfortunately ambiguity emerged when the “special committee” agreed governance upon consensus, “though cognizant of the interests of Gibraltarians” but failed to determine explicitly any emergent of Gibraltar’s right to self governance and that serves only to feed Rajoy’s current campaign to divert attention away from Spain’s ills. And this political playtime unfortunately appeals to the less well read of Spaniards, of which fortunately there are few.

  13. @ el Alcalde

    By leaving things “exclusively to diplomatic representation” as Spain has apparently so kindly done, do you mean any of the following acts of Spanish magnanimity:

    1. Repeated attempts to block Gibraltarian cultural and sporting organisations (including dog owners) from participation in international events?

    2. Use of excessive and unnecessary delays at the land frontier as a political tool with which to exert economic pressure?

    3. Persistent and sustained anti-Gibraltarian campaigns in the national media?

    4. Repeated and provocative incursions by paramilitary vessels into territorial waters?

    Answers on a postcard please.

  14. In accordance with resolution 2353 (XXII) of 19 December 1967, of the UN: The referendum is illegal, and Gibraltar must be returned to Spanish sovereignty.

    UN haven´t said anything respect de USA population.

  15. Further beyond. Anselmo..

    What exactly is the date of decolonisation then?
    Because I believe that your decolonisation is set for the 9th November this year.]]

    With more dates to follow in more areas of your fascist and oppressive country.

    Good luck !! NO democracy, NO peace!!

    Spain unfortunately is on a downward spiral and were going to enjoy the ride!!

  16. I suspect the fascist sympathisers on here (cough cough not mentioning names) will be white knuckling while holding on to their failing country.

    cant wait to see it!

  17. FurtherBeyond

    Decolonisation does not mean re-colonisation. Four UN ICJ Advisory Opinions and one UN ICJ Judgment all state that ‘the right to self-determination is applicable to ALL non-self-governing territories. That’s international law.

  18. el Alcalde, if the boot was on the other foot as you suggest and Spain had held Lands End for that amount of time, I for one would not care. In fact, I would accept it and view it as an interesting place to visit. I equally would not care if the Spanish Royal Family visited it and they had a Naval base there, why would I?

  19. Anselmo let me tell you a few facts of life.

    Slavery was legal in 1704 – it no longer is – we have moved on.

    Arabs and Jews are allowed to live in Gibraltar – we have moved on.

    The UN may have resolved in 1967 that Gibraltar be returned to Spanish sovereignty in 1967 (you might like to take a look of who was sitting at that particular meeting and who voted for the return of Gibraltar against the people of Gibraltar’s wishes)- we have moved on.

    Now, today, the present, you know – ahora – not nearly 50 years ago – the United Nations have resolved that the wishes of the people of these territories are Paramount and supersedes Territorial Integrity.

    OK?

    The Paramount Wish of the People of Gibraltar is that we want to continue being British together with our Territory which has been ours for 300 years. Got it?

    Has it sank in yet?????

  20. As to the Atletico de Madrid’s fans, what can be said about them after they were so well treated by the Chelsea Fans and football club and saw fit to pay them back in their own home ground chanting insults at the Chelsea Manager Jose Mourinho? Disgusting!

  21. I think that yes, you can compare Spain to a fascist country. A poorly managed, disorganised and deep down truely confused country. Without the sun Spain really has very little going for it. I think one day Spain will change but this will only be after its break up, catalunya and basque etc. Only then do i think spain will be managable by the spanish. I mean can they really be trusted with the important stuff at his stage? I think not… very sad

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