Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor)AT least two Guardia Civil officers have been killed by a car bomb in Mallorca.
A further 46 have been injured after a car bomb went off outside Guardia Civil barracks in Burgos, while a third could be imminent.
The attacks mark the 50th anniversary of the group, that was set up by left wing students during Franco´s dictatorship in the 1950s.
The two deaths came after their booby-trapped car exploded near the Marivent Palace, in Palmanova, where Spain´s royal family is currently on holiday.
The blast comes a day after a car bomb targeted a barracks in Burgos, injuring 60 people and blowing off most of the 14-storey building’s facade.
Police have already blamed the Basque separatist group, Eta, for Wednesday’s attack.
ETA has been blamed for more than 820 deaths during its 50-year campaign for an independent Basque nation.
The security forces have been on the alert since the weekend after receiving information from France that ETA planned “to bring three vans packed with explosives into Spain,” reported El Mundo.
What can you say that hasn’t already been said regarding this cowardly vermin? The hands of the Police are tied by a Government and Judiciary who of course NEVER have to face this scum,when what they truely need is a “shoot-to-kill,no questions asked policy” to eradicate them but it will take a President with balls to sanction that?
Paul I am sorry to disagree. First of all this country does not have a President, as it is a constitutional monarchy. It has a prime minister. Second, hold your breath for tomorrow as that is the 50st birthday of the loony tunes bombers. The guy who runs operations now is only 29 years old, just wiki on eta and you know as much as me. This young ambitious dumbass knows nothing even of socialist ideals of the days long before he was born. He is just after a carreer and has been given all the keys for creating disaster because the rest now enjoys all the luxuries of prison life. He is already half way home as today and yesterday was once again blindly copied and pasted in all the international press. Not bad for someobe who has just grown his first pubes. But also more dangerous, because this one is only after a job. Ideals mean nothing anymore. Understanding that all that Osama achieved is that you cannot fly with more than 100 ml of chanel nr5 in your handluggage is not there. It is look mum, I was on TV. And in the papers. Both old media. Be a little carefull this friday. But your chance of being hit by lightening is still bigger than becoming a terror victim. This is not about ideals, this is the Basks Got Talent Show. But like the Iranian elections there is only one candidate to send your smses to. That is what it is.
“Shoot to kill” doesn’t work quite that easily; it didn’t work with poor Jean Charles de Menezes in London, for example.
“Understanding that all that Osama achieved is that you cannot fly with more than 100 ml of chanel nr5 in your handluggage …”
He had (and is having) *much* more of an impact than that. Worldwide security reviews and new draconian laws have been enacted (primarily in the US) because of Osama. Amazing that one man could pose such a threat, but then again with the media brainwashing everyone about Osama, it’s not really that surprising.
It was quite funny watching Michael Moore’s Farenheit 911 film, when he visits the most small and sleepy towns in America and asks the locals what they fear most in the whole World, and they say “Osama”. Before Fox TV kept telling families Osama was after them, they had never even heard of “Al-Qaeda”.
Dear Fred, I don’t think American families needed Fox TV to tell them what Al-Qaeda was after two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in New York. I think after that they would have become aware of Al-Qaeda whether or not Fox TV had told them, or in fact whether or not Fox TV even existed.
The US public very much did need to be told about Al-Qaeda because a nation as paranoid as the US relies heavily on such coverage to try and justify it military aims and placate the public. Linking the WTC attacks to Al Qaeda and to Saddam, to justify the war on terror, was essential TV programming to prepare the public… Fox TV is particulary good at this.
My point is that the US public has been bombarded with information about Osama and Al-Qaeda, especially around the 911 event and afterwards, to such an extent that a person living in a midwest town with a population of 150 even feared Al-Qaeda would come there and threaten their families and they were prepared for that event, so Osama has had a much bigger impact.
I suppose you’ll be telling me next Koba that a ‘plane’ crashed into the Pentagon? I look forward to you showing me and the world a picture of that major event. After all, it was only photographed up to 80 times but ‘national security’ stops those videos from being shown. Why does the US have such a problem showing us a picture of a plane if that is what they tell us officially crashed into the building? Any take on that?
Well Fred, I don’t know about pictures of the plane actually crashing into the Pentagon building. But if you bother to do a search on the internet (I assume you can do this yourself rather than me having to do it for you) then you will see a myriad of photographs from sources independent of the US government of plane wreckage both in and outside of the building.
Not only that but no respected news web site that I have come across has ever treated a plane crashing into the Pentagon as anything other than substantive fact. This includes the BBC at one end of the spectrum and Al Jazeera at the other. Not one of them ever caveats their description of the event as having “allegedly” happened.
So I think it’s only right that I move the burden of proof over to you Fred. Please do enlighten us all. If it wasn’t a plane crashing into the building then please tell us what caused all that damage to the Pentagon building. And how did all that plane wreckage get in there? Or maybe you’re even claiming that the building wasn’t actually damaged, are you?
It’s all very easy to suggest a conspiracy and claim that some event didn’t actually happen but then not to describe what you believe actually happened and, most importantly, provide any meaningful evidence to back up the veracity of your claims.
When I want to understand an event such as this, I listen to the pilots, generals, metallurgists, Physics professors, and other world experts and scientists who have commented on the event. These people are not crackpots; they just look at the science of the event, and there is already enough evidence to overturn the official verdict and now just a new investigation is needed. The refusal to release official video evidence drives this whole thing into a conspiracy theory. The evidence could destroy the conspiracy theory in a split second, but no, it is not released. Why exactly?
Where’s the evidence of the plane again? here are the photos of the building just after “impact”. See: http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/images/facade-intacte-hte-def1.jpg and http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/images/facade-intacte-hte-def2.jpg
Look at that grass. Amazingly tough stuff, grass. And here is a picture of how a plane crash looks in CCTV, this one is the Madrid airport crash and notice that you can see an actual plane: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/resize/index/id/44605/w/450/h/338/pjpeg/madrid_crash_video_1909_A_aap_1221773798.jpg
And here is what the crash site looked like after the event: http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00199/flight2_199215d.jpg
You will note the massive fuel fire that scorched the area. Pentagon grass is obviously flame resistent. You’ve been watching too much Fox TV Koba. I don’t want to change the course of a thread but you brought up the issue of the planes.
Koba, when you put aluminium foil on your head to protect yourself from electrical vibrations and the watch the tv shows again…. Only then you will see the cia-kgb plot. Hahaha. Terrorism has had its best days. Because old media has had its best days as well.
Something hit the Pentagon for sure, but I am not convinced it was a 757 until I see some hard evidence. You do not seem able to reason between hard evidence and what you are fed by TV channels Koba. Do you watch much Fox TV by any chance? If the government does not want conspiracy theories then it should show us evidence. Your avoidance of that central issue tells me you are either in denial or just plane stupid lol.
Dear Fred, I’m not blaming you for changing the course of the thread. I don’t lay blame on anyone for going off at a tangent. Nor do I apologise for my contribution into changing the direction of the discussion. As I have said before, it’s a free and largely unmoderated forum.
I don’t possess supernatural powers that allow you to be eye witness to any event in the world at any time. Therefore I have to rely on television, newspapers and the radio to give me information about planes crashing into buildings in America, earthquakes in China, social unrest in Burma, etc, etc.
What’s more it is clear from their track records that, unlike some of these conspiracy theorists, the employees of organisations like the Washington Post or the BBC are beholden to the due process and rigours of investigative journalism. Also I trust that these organisations are not corrupted by the political leaders of their respective countries. After all it was the organisations I mention above that collectively exposed Watergate, Iran-Contra and the Iraq supergun. Hardly working in the favour of the political establishment is it?.
In order that this contribution does not go into automatic moderation I will send in another message just one or two examples of photographs showing plane wreckage in the Pentagon.
I’ve looked at some of these conspiracy theory web sites and not one of them can explain adequately how the plane wreckage ended up in the building. Not only that but not one of them can adequately explain that, if wasn’t Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon, then what actually happened to Flight 77 and where are the 64 passengers and crew that were on the passenger and crew manifests for that flight when it left Washington Airport?
I’m not sure this is about me wathcing Fox TV too much. I think this is about Fred watching too many episodes of the X-Files. LOL.
Fred,why do you refer to Jean Charles de Menezes? First of all if HE had OBEYED the law and left the UK whe HE should have done and NOT overstayed on HIS VISA then HE would NOT have PUT himself IN THE UNFORTUNATE position HE did.This is a fact everyone appears very CONVENIENTLY to have forgotten including yourself. REGARDING ETA I BELIEVE the GUARDIA or ARMY should be AUTHORISED by the GOVERNMENT – Prime Minister (apologies to ‘M’) to hunt them down and eradicate them all,(as appeasement to FRED and so he could sleep sound in his bed at night), the Guardia know who they are so there would be no “errors”, and their families and followers and offspring and supporters etc.
Dear Paul Caps, do yourself a favour and check out the wikipedia page on ETA. Then idea of eradicating them all is almost as old as the eta, except some counter hits killed and wounded several innocent civilians as well. That organisation was called GAL. And put Spain in a difficult spot at the time. How can any state expect support against terrorism if it uses the same priciple? Because in these kinds of useless killings, it does not matter anymore who started first. Luckily you idea has been abandoned long ago on the side of the Spanish state. And brought the cooperation of France where previously these bandits could hide in relative safety. Anyway. Before, when there was only the 8 oclock news and two newspapers, bizarre and cruel news was rare. It would draw the attention of millions, who could not at that time give any feedback, only write a letter to the BBC or wait for next elections. How much did time not change since then! If you like bizarre news, the internet is full of it. All the items the once powerful news agencies like Reuters never bothered with are now openly available. Today you can decide yourself what you consider significant news. And find perspective when you are interested. With all respect to vicitims of terror, when I see people commit terror today I think much more like “Duhhuh, so what was your point?” terrorism is related to old school, dead trees print, one way commutication channels of the past. Those times are over.
>Fred,why do you refer to Jean Charles de Menezes?
Er, because he was shot multiple times in the head on a tube train full of passengers and it was a shoot to kill policy. He was also innocent (a key fact). You’ll want to bring back hanging next I suppose, Paul?
Koba, why are you looking at conspiracy theory web sites when there are already websites by leading scientists devoted to the subject? I do not read conspiracy theory websites. As a scientist myself I just want to see proper analysis and some good science. It would also be good to see a picture of a plane hitting the Pentagon so that we know what we are dealing with.
I’m glad you bought up issues like Nixon/Watergate, Iran-Contra, and SuperGun. What these events all prove is that goverments are very very devious institutions indeed, and the events you mention are the ones they got found out about! Rest assured that there are many other events that did not make the press. We do have a very good investigative institutions and let us hope they find the full truth of this matter. I think they will, in time. I expect many journalists have been warned off and threatened indirectly.
Your X-Files comment is typical of the Fox TV culture generally. They invite a leading scientist on (say an Emitirus Professor) to discuss the Pentagon event, and then they cajole and ridicule him and and tell him that he believes in aliens and UFOs etc. This is exactly what happened on Fox TV coincidentally, and it’s exactly what you are doing now Koba.
As I said before, there is already enough scientific evidence to challenge (indeed overturn) the official verdict. Not a lot of people know that.
When Adam and Eve were kicked out of paradise, their biggest burden was that from then on they would have to find out what was good and what was evil. This is still not easy. Before, when you were badly ill you had no option other than to believe the doctor. Now an enormous amount of information is available, but that comes with the burden of Adam and Eve as well. The provided liks about the pentagon incident were quite useless, but I could find a lot and though other theories were interesting to read, it was a plane. Governments have their interests but their control on bending the truth is very limited. When Aznar said Madrid was an eta attack, maybe to quickly because it fitted his political agenda, the truth cam out in just a day or two and he lost confidence of the voters. That process was unstoppable. Goverments can by no means control the free flow of information anymore. Those in Iran, Birma, China, etc etc have to find other ways to stay in control because it is more and more impossible to keep the lid on facts. Or gossip. Some years ago, in Madrid, there was a scandal where a video of a politician was copied and delivered anonymously to a couple hundred addresses to defame him. Today anybody can do that with a stupid mobiile phone and put it straight on youtube. The press does not play any part in this, whoever own the paper or the tv channel has no influence anymore on this. In the same way any presumed suppression of for instance Basks can be documented and published by any man in the street. And any youngster who is still hiding in Mallorca could see his face published on the web sooner than he can make it back in hiding. In moving pictures with sound!
M, the CIA suppresses up to 80 CCTV videos of the Pentagon incident. Why is that please? Answer that one simple point won’t you please?
When you say “Goverments can by no means control the free flow of information anymore” I have just contradicted you with one simple fact, so the rest of your argument thus collapses.
The YouTube generation catches events ‘on the ground’ as they happen; it doesn’t give access to information about government coverups and state secrets on the scale of 911. You have the concepts mixed up – YouTube’s motto is “publish yourself” remember.
Fred, if you’re a scientist then you MUST be either the Worlds worst spelling one eg it should be EMERITUS – not emiturus or perhaps you’re just dyslexic? And as we’re in Spain, I’d bring back the garrotte and be more than willing to personally carry out the sentence.You having introduced de Menezes into this, HAVE deliberately chosen to ignore the fact EVEN NOW that had HE OBEYED the law and LEFT THE UK WHEN REQUIRED he would NOT have been in the UK to have been shot, would he? And “M” am I to presume from what you say that NO INNOCENT CIVILIANS HAVE EVER BEEN KILLED OR INJURED OR MAIMED by any ETA BOMB since they have been in existence? Just like the one used in Burgos was planned to be? Or from any of their wild return fire or shooting from a car-chase? I don’t think it’s lucky that my idea of eradicating them was done away with and when it was in use it was the most effective and successful period of counter-terrorism ever used against ETA since their formation.Why do you think this scum “give-up” nowadays rather than enter into a shoot-out and go down fighting like they did in the past?Simply because they are gutless, cowards who don’t think their cause is worth dying or becoming a martyr for!
Eventhough I did go to university, I have to admit that the best I learnt was playing cards. Next to that there were professors who at that time would explain who few would eventually “make it” and today living a good life I still have to meet one of my first year group here. My good future never depended on the exams of the old fart professors. Emeritus or not. @Fred. Did you ever fly with a private plane from Malaga? When you do that and you have a camera, you will be asked not to rale pictures of the airport as it is a military zone. A nice picture for the family could be a security risk as well. Understandable. What do you think the pentagon is in this light? To me that is as much understandable. But if I was there and not only saw e.g. Mister Zapatero blatantly abuse his power and secretly filmed it? Likely it would not be on youtube for long, but when relevant, before my contribution would be deleted, hundres of mirror sites would have a copy. For the world to see. When Watergate happend, it took two couragious reporters, and a couragious newspaper owner who knew then that making a wrong decision, especially when implicating the president of the usa, would mean he could literally forget getting another mortgage fpr a penthouse on manhattan for the next 100 years. Today we do not need that anymore, we can all be heroes. With a mobile phone, within 5 minutes. That is also why I do not believe the conspiracy theory. In my, unscientific, mind it is now impossible to silence all the whitnesses that saw it happen. No way. But then again you illustrate ypurself that today you can find your information and think otherwise. Who knows, you might be right. That is important as well and can not be supressed. @Paul Caps. I still have my coffee sitting next to a guardia on duty and now more than ever I would step in his car or respecy even more to clear the area. If eta achieved anything, it is my growing respect for the guardia civil. Innocent is also a Palestinian or Pakistani child who is taught to walk into a full market place, push the button and blow itself to martyrdom. My point was and is that terrorism is related to mass media. On way media. That will not disappear, like TV never fully eradicated the cinema. But today I can simply go on line and talk Directly with Basks to ask why possibly their life would be better if the autonomous state woul be changed in full independance. I do not need the 8 oclock anchor man anymore to select opinions, nor the adolecent bomb thrower of Mallorca to tell me what to think. I can find out myself. That fact makes terrorism so useless. Makes it harder, because now more tham ever victins suffered really for nothing. How come some abuela can start a blog and everybody reads it, and these old fashioned terrorists know nothing better then to blow up bombs to get attention??? If I was related to victims I would want revenge of course! But I am not. I have seen the shit. They cannot blow up all the guardias. Osama cannot destroy all tall buildings. I am no longer impressed by what these people can do. And I do not fear them. They get the same sympathy from me as I have for the Serbs who thought they could just do a little genocide on the muslims and then apply for European funds. Yeah right. Terrorism achieved its final goal. Some shit kids (seen the pictures?) pleasing the old daddies that do not believe in the internet. Ah we all make choices in life but we all have to live with the consequence of our choices. Poor kids. Terrorism is a thing of the past. It makes it more sad that some guardias had to die for that this week. If there was any purpose of that it is only that we know more than ever that there is no need for this ludicrous bloodshedding in the future. I promise to read the bombbelt blog and the why is bask culture superiour in Europe blog every day. But please stop this twentieth century lunacy. Would anybody like to explain to the wife of the policeman who saw her hisband burn to death a few weeks ago in another attack??? My arms are around her but that will not bring her husband back nor will it erase her trauma that she had to look at it and there was nothing she could do. Just the same, who can make an attempt to explain why. I can read that no matter what Madrid or Obama try to wipe out.
Paul, I make frequent spelling mistakes, especially at night after a long day’s work. I also predict that I will make many more spelling mistakes in the future, as of course you will too.
Regarding Mr Menezes. At the time, Jack Straw stated that Mr Menezes was in the country legally. Also, the Home Office never said at any time that he was in the country illegally. The only one comment the Government made was that one of the British stamps in Mr de Menezes passport was not being used at the time. That could quite easily been an administrative error. Was it really necessary to fire seven rounds into this man’s head?
Btw, garotting and executing people never works – as history has proved. Your offer of becoming the executioner brings you down to the killers level.
Paul, thank god you did not use caps this time. They remind me of stag party people singing out loud in my favourite restaurant. For the rest, do not forget to wear your aluminium hat. Especially in the night the mossad has special equipment to brainwash you while you sleep. And when you do not wear it, north korea has systems that will lock a missile on you where ever you are. Just thought you should know because not many people read about this.
Btw, the Pentagon is not a secret outside the building. It has been filmed and watched for weeks on end after the 911 event. Your analogy about taking photos of it is therefore irrelevant. Planes are not allowed to fly over it or near it, EXCEPT (sorry caps) if you are a terrorist flying a 757 into it lol! Doh. Did you not watch the TV – there must have been 100 TV stations present and they were not told to stop filming. You must get more clued up M. I can help you :)
‘M’ From your unintelligible English language I could believe you did NOT go to school let alone university, another who needs spellcheck on and a grammar teacher with you. You may have been led to believe somewhere down the track that IF you write reams it will make you look intelligent.This isn’t so, especially in your case when your offering makes as much sense as the nonsensical Jabberwocky in Alice in Wonderland!
Paul, when are you applying for that garotting position again? I’m sure somewhere in the world still practices this disgusting ritual so you should be in with a chance lol.
It is very sad to see the real subject of this thread has been lost. ETA are terrorists and Spain will, as did the UK, have to deal with them. Its a shame those deaths of police officers doing their duty seemed to get lost in a series of pointless rants and responses.
Alan, nothing in this thread is pointless. Yes, Spain will have to ‘deal’ with ETA; it will have to start talking to them again. Communication is the way forward.
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