JULIE Girling has urged Britons to ‘boycott’ Spain in response to mounting tensions.

The Gibraltar and South-West England Euro MP posted a message on Twitter saying: “There has been enough talking, now there must be action. I urge constituents across the UK to consider taking their summer holidays elsewhere this year.

“Spain is not on our side,” she states.

Speaking out about ‘outlandish threats’ by Spain against the Rock and its citizens, and ‘menacing proposals’, the MEP calls for UK citizens to either take a ‘staycation’ this summer – holidaying in another part of Britain – or choose another foreign destination altogether.

“Citizens of Gibraltar will not stand for the Spanish bullying and intimidation. The imposition of a 50-euro charge to cross the border, and the closure of Spanish airspace to Gibraltar flights, is clearly impeding the movement of workers to and from Gibraltar,” Ms Girling states both on Twitter and on her own website, www.juliegirling.com.

“I believe the European Commission should launch legal action against the Spanish government,” the MEP concludes.


  1. Aubrey
    I rather suspect that you are Spanish rather than British. Only Spaniards believe the bull*hit created in Madrid that Gibraltar is

    A) full of dodgy money (it is not – you have to provide as much information as opening an account in the UK); or;

    B) that it is a tax haven (it shares tax information with other nations and the corporate rates are comparable with eastern europe; or;

    C) that the internet gambling is a scam (it’s the best regulated in the world and a centre of excellence for it’s proberty); or;

    D) that the reef is provocative (when it’s true purpose is to protect the environment and stop greedy Spanish fishermen who fish with illegal nets using a rake which destroys the seabed for other sea life and fishes illegally in a zone that is not approved for fishing by either the Spanish or the Gibraltan Government.

    Only a fool would then say that Gibraltar has to change, when the charter of the United Nations says they have the right of Self-Determination, that they can then decide their own laws and then enforce them.

    Only a fool would try to prevent their own population seeking work in another country, when the state they live in cannot provide that work, the unemployment is 30% in that region and then try to make it difficult for their own citizens to cross the border.

    I would suggest that if you are not already Spanish (as I suspect you are) then you should renounce your British citizenship and embrace the economic disaster that is about to befall Spain. Have they taxed you enough yet. I hear that they are heavily taxing all British retirees, especially the ones with bank accounts offshore.

  2. @ Aubrey…..¡¡¡POR FIN!!!. Alguien ha visto la luz.

    Unfortunately the media have climbed on the bandwagon (as seen on Antena 3 this evening) which results in rattling everyone’s cages and serves for nothing, least of all unbiased reporting. And to read the Daily Mail readers postings (fed of course by the newspapers traditional anti-Spain attitude), any more intransigence by either side will screw up UK tourism next year.

    And Picardo??. Quote, “Hell will freeze over before we (Gibraltar) move the concrete blocks”. Vaya, What a negotiator!.

  3. Well the fishermen decided to make their protests, and from the video i saw the Guardia Civil were ushering them not to enter into Gibralter waters along with the Gibraltan pólice!
    One question: if the Spanish knew the fishermen were plotting to do this, why did they not prevent them, they had since Friday?

  4. Thanks for your slightly elongated answer Nigel. Which, boiled down is, “no, Gib doesn’t pay” and the armed forces of the U.K. have a duty “to protect British citizens-where ever in the world they may be.” Doesn’t one normally pay tax toward the defence of their realm? Perhaps some of the millions that are drained from the U.K. in online gaming could be diverted to that noble cause.
    Aubrey: About time the views of actual Settlers in mainland Spain were heard.

  5. Well, if no Brits visited Spain on holiday, there would be no Brits to cross the border into Gibraltar and of course the Gibraltarians wouldn’t be crossing the border to visit Spain, so they may as well just close the border completely.

    Julie Girling hasn’t really thought this one through has she?

  6. @Anselmo
    Spanish fishermen are not entitled to fish in the area where the concrete blocks were located. It is not an Open Zone according to the Junta de Andalusia.

    Spain is the biggest user of artificial reefs in Europe. Most of them were paid for by the EU.

    There are literally thousands of Spanish concrete blocks preventing Spanish fishermen from damaging the environment and helping to improve fish stocks.

  7. Nigel:

    In the page that you recomended i haven´t been capable of to see nothing.

    Would you send me more information over this issue?.

    Is a fact that the fishermen works in the waters surrounding Gibraltar since generations.

    The instalation of an artificial reef wihtout permission of the autorithies is a punished by the law.

  8. @anselmo
    If you are having difficulty with the Junta page, click on the thin shell clams and it will show you the zones that are approved for fishing.

    It does not matter if the fishermen have been fishing there historically – they have been breaking Gibraltar law every time they did.

    The reef was installed with the permission of the Gibraltar Government and as the reef is in British waters, that is all that was needed.

    Let me make it perfectly clear, the reef is in British Gibraltar Territorial Waters. The Government of Spain has repeatedly claimed that Gibraltar does not have territorial waters, but this is untrue.

    The Treaty of Utrecht does not mention Spanish OR British waters. If Spain had intended to deprive Britain of the waters, the treaty should have said so. If Spain had attempted to exclude the waters, the treaty would never have been agreed to. The fact is that any treaty for land that has a coast, also includes the territorial waters, because the concept of territorial waters is a 20th Century construction. Morocco does not deny Spain the territorial waters of Ceuta or Melilla, even though they object to Spain owning these territories.

    The UNCLOS treaty made it perfectly clear for all nations that territorial waters exist and they extend to 12 miles or the median point between 2 nations. Although countries were entitled to make a Declaration when they signed UNCLOS, this declaration could not modify the treaty to exclude anywhere from it. Spain tried to exclude Gibraltar, but they were told by the British Declaration that the Spanish exclusion was invalid by Article 310 of the Treaty.

  9. Rajoy is a bully in true Franco tradition. In fact, the Partido Populare is descended from Franco’s fascist dictatorship.Rajoy has bullied the Basques in the North and the Catalonians in the East. Both want independence from Madrid with very good reason.Whether he will be able to bully Cameron in similar fashion is debatable given the lack of cojones exhibited by the British Prime Minister. With horrendous unemployment in Spain and corruption charges laid against himself and members of his party, he needs this distraction beautifully timed because Brussels ‘shuts down’ in August.

  10. Stefanjo to answer your question without the rhetoric;

    August 17th, 2013 7:50 pm

    “Here’s another thing to wonder about. Who PAYS for the protection that the U.K. offers to Gib?”

    Gibraltar has a UK base, for their own use, they do not pay Gibraltar as does the USA for the privilege of having a USA base in Rota. BILLIONS.

    The Royal GIB RGT is paid for by UK, their taxes are paid in UK. The UK saves BILLIONS by not having to send their other Regiments to Gibraltar. The savings include, having to pay for their travel, their quarters, their extras for overseas postings, separate schools for their children, hospitals doctors staff etc etc. Once the GIB Regt men have been pensioned off, they are not able to claim all the other goodies which any person who has paid their taxes in UK all their life enjoy. Satisfied? Now if we became independent or sovereignty were transferred Britain would have to PAY BILLIONS for the use of the Naval Base as does the USA. Maybe those were the red lines that stopped Blair’s enthusiasm for the project of joint sovereignty.

    Does Gibraltar tip up money in the form of taxes to the U.K? Or will the poor old Brit taxpayer shoulder the burden of sticking up for somewhere that pays nowt? We all stoutly defend the right of self-determination of Gibraltar, but it would be nice to know they pay into the costs of the navy and the wages of the lads who are expected to wave a big stick at the recalcitrant Spanish.
    Just wondered….

  11. Sorry that last paragraph was stefanjo’s full comment not part of mine.

    May I also add that the Royal Gibraltar Regiment soldiers, have served and are serving in all the conflict zones in the world in the front lines shoulder to shoulder with other UK regiments. So there you have it Stefanjo, in one sentence Gibraltar does not cost UK Tax payers one single penny.

  12. amparo;
    Point a. Cameron is on “holiday” in Scotland. You have to be a politician to know what their “holidays” are like, much like working from home. No rest for the wicked.

    Point b. Neither the BBC nor the British press have a negative attitude towards Spain. But when Spain is in the wrong, they have no qualms about saying so. I would like to remind you that thanks to the BBC the world got to know what was really going on during WWII. Which is not what one could say about Radio Nacional de Espana!

    Point c. Spanish people do not have an inferiority complex. What they do have, I am sorry to say because I like Spanish people, is centuries of backwardness in what a Democracy is all about. (through no fault of their own) And it isn’t showing boobs on TV.

    Point d. Everyone is afraid of nuclear weapons. What one cannot be is hypocritical and claim to high heaven about nuclear propelled submarines visiting Gibraltar, and inviting these same submarines to go to Rota instead, “because they would be less visible”. And on top of it all, the Spanish authorities do not seem to mind at all that there are nuclear cemeteries in Spain. What it boils down to is money, money money, or good old Greenbacks

    Point e. I believe the Catalans are well versed in what it would mean to become independent, the good and the bad that would go with it. If they are not, they should be. I also believe that if that is what the majority want, they should be allowed to give it a try, much like Scotland. Democracy in the making. What you cannot do is subdue a people by the use of threats.

    Maybe Andalucia should give it a try. Or if that is not acceptable to the majority try the Federal model that Rubalcaba has been posturing. Why should Madrid be fed and their politicians paid by everybody else’s taxes and then have to beg for their share back?

    Point f. Clegg, can’t even remember what he looks like.

  13. Maybe Spain has the worst justice in the EU, and the politician’s worst class that one might have.
    Probably Spanish might be the worst people of here (it is possible to see all kinds of comment more above), and we live with a persons’ great quantity that they do not want to be Spanish, and they hate to the Spanish, Spain and our flag.
    I understand that the critique on us. I agree about that the Spanish people think that someone is going to come here and to be going to solve all our problems.
    I like United Kingdom and I knew wonderful people when I was there. But I do not understand why there are people who lives in the past when Spanish and British fought.
    The whole hatred that it is possible to see here avoid probably to solve problems.
    I never will go to country that I hate, like some people hate Spain.
    I hope that I never will feel this. Maybe It would be better
    that Spain does not exist anymore for some people. These people might fight with this boat against other countries.

  14. Nigel:

    I have found that, in effect, the Junta de Andalucia not include the waters around Gibraltar as fishing grounds.

    But the fact is that fishermen fished around forever, and can not be an illegal activity and that supports the Spanish State.

    On the other hand I have read the allegations made by the Spanish in signing UNCLOS, and based on the argument that this convention can not be applied to Gibraltar as it is a territory in the process of decolonization.

  15. Anselmo

    The Junta de Andalusia specifies the exact areas that are open for Spanish fishermen. The areas around Gibraltar are not included as open areas – why is that?

    It’s because the Junta know that these waters belong to British Gibraltar. So that means the Spanish fishermen cannot legally fish there without the permission of the Government of Gibraltar.

    Spanish fishermen fished in Gibraltar waters and usually abided by Gibraltar laws. Most of them still do. There was an agreement between the Gibraltar Government and the fishermen to control where fishing was allowed and how they fished.

    I recently saw an interview with Fabian Picardo where he discussed coming to a new agreement with the fishermen so that they can resume fishing.

    However, there is one fisherman, the owner of the Divina Providencia, who repeatedly fished with illegal nets which would not be allowed in Spanish waters (the gaps were too narrow and caught immature fish) and used a rake (which would also not be allowed in Spanish waters), which damaged the sea bed for other wildlife. This fisherman refused to comply with Gibraltar laws.

    He’s not the only one though. Others use a light (lucero) to attract the fish, so they can catch them. This is also illegal by Gibraltar law, but these fishermen refuse to obey the law.

    When Gibraltar police approach their boats to stop them, the Guardia Civil boats come out to intervene and prevent any arrest – even though the GC’s presence in Gibraltar waters is a violation of UNCLOS.

    As for UNCLOS, it applies to Gibraltar, because Gibraltar is British territory and Britain signed the treaty. Gibraltar was only included in the United Nations decolonisation list (the C24 committee) because Spain requested it. The people of Gibraltar do not want to be decolonised – because they don’t need to, they are self-governing already.

    Nothing in UNCLOS says that it does not apply to colonies. If it did then Ceuta and Melilla would not have territorial waters. The notion that UNCLOS does not apply to colonies was an invention of the Spanish Government. Another of the lies they tell.

    The same as the lie that the waters were not included on the Treaty or Utrecht, it does not even mention waters – no treaty of that time does, they don’t mention airspace either, but waters are implicit in the Treaty.

    Another lie is that the Isthmus is not British, when there were numerous treaties after Utrecht which defined the limitations of British territory, or that UNCLOS Declarations made by Spain invalidate the treaty for Gibraltar – they don’t, in fact, the treaty applies to all countries and cannot be excluded.

    Spain continues to tell lies about Gibraltar to further their cause of reclaiming the Rock. They cannot persuade the Gibraltarians to become Spanish, so they have to lie, to cheat, to bully the Gibraltarians, because Spain can never win.

  16. Nigel:

    I appreciate the attention that you put in your detailed responses to my comments.

    But the fact is that Spain does not recognize that UNCLOS may apply to Gibraltar because it is in the process of decolonization, and that depends only on UK and Spain, the people of Gibraltar have nothing to say. These issues are superior to the individuals. For example, a French,can not become irish just by wishing. He Would have to request the change of nationality etc.

    Regarding Ceuta I have no news about UN resolutions for his decolonization. I would appreciate news about this issue.

    With regard your comentary about that Spain indicated its agreement with the occupation of the isthmus, I haven´t news


  17. @Anselmo

    Maybe you should read more history.

    Spain might not recognise that UNCLOS applies to Gibraltar, but the rest of the world does.

    Spain has never challenged the right of UNCLOS to apply to Gibraltar in the International Court, because Spain knows that they would lose.

    Spain’s top law officer stated as such some years ago, that Spain did not have a case. It all comes down to the fact that the Treaty could not be excluded from Gibraltar. Article 310 made it perfectly clear that no matter what any nation declared, they could not vary the treaty to exclude the treaty from applying to anywhere.


    The status of the territory between the North Front of The Rock and La Linea was settled militarily and diplomatically over 200 years ago.

    In 1713, at the time of the cession of Gibraltar in perpetuity to the British Crown, various fortifications were established and occupied by British troops in the area which came to be known as ‘the British Neutral Ground’. This was the area to the North of Gibraltar, militarily conquered and continuously occupied by the British except, during time of war.

    After the Spanish attack (In Breach of Spain’s written promise in the treaty of Utrecht) in 1727 was repulsed by the British, the Treaty of Seville (1729) was the scene of long arguments between the Government of Spain and the United Kingdom as to how far North the ‘undoubted right’ of Britain extended from the North face of the Rock and it was finally accepted that a distance of 600 Toises, being more than 2 cannon shots distance between the British guns and the Spanish guns, would be considered ‘the neutral gound’, and so it continued thereafter.

    [Editors Note: Paolo Narvaez Guarnieri defines a Toise as a unit equivalent to length of two arms. Equal to 1.949 meters or 6 feet]

    After the 14th siege ended in 1783, the British resumed the occupation of the British half of the neutral ground, and at least since 1838, when permanent sentries were posted along the line of the then existing frontier, the entire area has been exclusively occupied and administered by the Gibraltar authorities.

    In 1908 the British constructed a fence along ‘the British edge of the neutral territory at Gibraltar’ (actually, to avoid offending Spain it was put 1 metre inside the British territory) and, for reasons of courtesy, gave notice to the Government of Spain before doing so.

    During the construction of the border fence, the Governor of Algeciras was instructed to complain that it was being built “one or two metres in advance” of the British line, and he explained in his letter to the Governor of Gibraltar “I should not have called your excellency’s attention were it not that such construction has gone beyond the line of British sentries”.

    As has often been the case, statements made by the Spanish Government are less than accurate and cannot be relied upon.

    The British foreign secretary Sir Edward Grey had the matter looked into and in 1909 wrote to the Spanish ambassador in London to draw to his attention and request that he inform his Government in Madrid that “It is perfectly clear … that the fence … will be entirely upon British territory”. The Spanish Government did not seek to argue the contrary and in any event gained 1 metre of the sovereign territory of Gibraltar, which they continue to occupy today.

    As for Ceuta and Melilla, may you should read this UN document from 2001 (Page 35 onwards:

    The same document also refers to Gibraltar, insofar as it mentions that the United Kingdom continues to stand by the commitment to the people of Gibraltar set out in the Preamble to the 1969 Constitution of Gibraltar, which enshrines the principle of consent of the people of Gibraltar to any change in sovereignty.

  18. Nigel:
    I also think that I need to learn more history, but much more of everything. And I try. I think that one of the good things in life is, indeed, to learn new things every day.
    I agree with You on the fact that all signatories to UNCLOS, the only country that does not recognize UK territorial waters around Gibraltar, is Spain.
    In the reference you’ve been kind enough to refer, I have found no UN resolution on decolonization of Ceuta and Melilla.

    With respect to the isthmus, the fact is that Spain considered illegal occupation by UK.
    Regarding the right of self-determination of the people of Gibraltar, this is not recognized either by the UN or by Spain.


  19. Anselmo

    Self-Determination is one of the over-riding principles of the Charter of the United Nations. That is why it is so prominent in the Charter:


    “1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;

    2.To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;”

    As a member of the United Nations, Gibraltar is entitled to Self Determination. This was made very clear in Press Release GA/SPD/237:


    “In the process of decolonization, there was no alternative to self-determination, the Chief Minister of Gibraltar told the Fourth Committee (Special Political and Decolonization) this afternoon, as it heard from representatives of Non-Self-Governing Territories, petitioners and governments.

    By a process of “smoke and mirrors”, the Chief Minister continued, Spain was trying to merge two issues into one; decolonization on the one hand, and a territorial dispute on the other. He urged that the question of Gibraltar be given to the International Court of Justice for an advisory opinion. He also requested the General Assembly to include in its annual resolution on the matter the need for both the United Kingdom (the administering Power) and Spain (the territorial claimant) to consult the wishes of the people of Gibraltar in resolving the matter. ”

    It might help if you read the United Nations Report of the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples on its work during 2001.

    The arguments of both sides were put forward.

    However, it was pointed out by the representatives of Gibraltar that United Nations resolution 1514 gave ALL PEOPLES the right to Self Determination.



  20. Might help if you read this version:


    Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples

    Adopted by General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960

    The General Assembly,

    Mindful of the determination proclaimed by the peoples of the world in the Charter of the United Nations to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small and to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

    Conscious of the need for the creation of conditions of stability and well-being and peaceful and friendly relations based on respect for the principles of equal rights and self-determination of all peoples, and of universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion,

    Recognizing the passionate yearning for freedom in all dependent peoples and the decisive role of such peoples in the attainment of their independence,

    A ware of the increasing conflicts resulting from the denial of or impediments in the way of the freedom of such peoples, which constitute a serious threat to world peace,

    Considering the important role of the United Nations in assisting the movement for independence in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories,

    Recognizing that the peoples of the world ardently desire the end of colonialism in all its manifestations,

    Convinced that the continued existence of colonialism prevents the development of international economic co-operation, impedes the social, cultural and economic development of dependent peoples and militates against the United Nations ideal of universal peace,

    Affirming that peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law,

    Believing that the process of liberation is irresistible and irreversible and that, in order to avoid serious crises, an end must be put to colonialism and all practices of segregation and discrimination associated therewith,

    Welcoming the emergence in recent years of a large number of dependent territories into freedom and independence, and recognizing the increasingly powerful trends towards freedom in such territories which have not yet attained independence,

    Convinced that all peoples have an inalienable right to complete freedom, the exercise of their sovereignty and the integrity of their national territory,

    Solemnly proclaims the necessity of bringing to a speedy and unconditional end colonialism in all its forms and manifestations;

    And to this end Declares that:

    1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

    2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

    3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

    4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

    5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

    6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

    7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

    I repeat for clarity:……

    2. ALL PEOPLES HAVE THE RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

  21. Anselmo

    Spain is seeking the return of sovereignty over land they gave away 300 years ago, FOREVER.

    Spain cannot persuade the Gibraltarians to become Spanish, primarily because the Gibraltarians identify themselves as British, in terms of their upbringing, their laws and the way they live, their society.

    Spain offers no advantages to the Gibraltarians and many disadvantages. After two referendums, both of which said that 98% were in favour of remaining British, Spain has accepted that the Gibraltarians want to be British. But the only way to get past that crucial point, that undeniable right – is to ignore those rights.

    Spain knows that they cannot overcome the right to self-determination, so they suggest that it does not exist.

    Spain continues to claim that Gibraltar is a colony when it is actually self-governing. The reason that Spain considers Gibraltar a colony is so they can maintain their claim (through the United Nations) to a process of Decolonisation, designed to ‘remove’ the British.

    However, the problem is that the people of Gibraltar WANT to be British. So they cannot decolonise Gibraltar without removing the peoples of Gibraltar. but as these peoples, have the right to self determination and it is their land, you cannot force their removal.

    That’s why Spain bullies Gibraltar – to make it uncomfortable for the people to remain there. Only the bullying does not work. It does the opposite. It makes the people of Gibraltar want to be more British, to fight the nasty Spanish people who want to make life tough for them.

    The fact remains that the United Nations has decided that all people have the right to self determination, to decide their own political, economic, social and cultural development.

    This applies to Gibraltar and there is nothing that Spain can do to deny this – no matter how much they try to bully the people of Gibraltar.

  22. OK. Enough now Olive Press. This is getting nowhere. I am sad to hear so much venom from many subscribers. I have lived in Catalunya and Andalucía for years and wouldn’t live anywhere else. Judge the people not its Governments.

  23. Nigel:

    The people have no rights, are abstract entities that exist only in our minds. Individuals have rights, and legal entities such as states or companies, also because they are treated as individuals .

    The right of self-determination isapplied, in effect,to colonies. But in the case of Gibraltar, the application of this law undermine the territorial integrity of Spain, and that goes against the Charter of the UN (Resolution 2353 of 1967 XXII).

    UK must comply with the UN resolution to decolonize Gibraltar and Spain ensure that human rights of Gibraltarians are respected.

  24. So Spain is a bully? What about Wales, Cornwall, Ireland, Scotland, Argentina (Falkland islands), India, America (native americans)? It seems like England has a long history of being a bully. I sorta hope that Spain gets the rock back. Why the hell do the English think they have a right to take a little bit away from everyone on earth? And their snobs too.

  25. Ben,
    not American are you?

    The British kept faith with the treaties they made with the indigenous people, the USA has broken every treaty they ever made.

    The real reason for the colonial uprising was that the British had a treaty not to cross into the Alleghenny mountains and the colonists were greedy to take even more land.

    Once the colonists had got rid of the British they set out to exterminate the indigenous peoples and to that end they murdered over 17 million. The Spanish directly by murder and by infection killed over 40 million in Central and South America. Through jealousy they destroyed the incredibly well designed and built cities of the Aztec and Inca civilzations – take a good look at the what they have ‘achieved’ since then.

    You need to deprogramme yourself and input some reality pal.

  26. @ Stuart Crawford. I don’t disagree with you. But don’t get too smug because I think the indigenous Aussies had a bit of a problema with those that arrived by boat as well. And the uninvited arrivals weren’t exactly the cream of the cream.

    And Maggie Harper is right. This needle has worn out.

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