8 Jan, 2015 @ 15:55
1 min read

UPDATE: Only three labour MPs turn up for Gibraltar debate in House of Commons

house commons empty e

ONLY three labour MPs have turned out for the House of Commons debate on Gibraltar.

The debate has been scheduled on the back of a report from the Foreign Affairs Committee entitled, ‘Gibraltar: Time to get of the fence’.

The report looks at the relationship between Spain and Gibraltar and summarises that ‘the behaviour of Spain toward Gibraltar is unacceptable’.

It continues: ‘A NATO and EU ally is, as a matter of policy, deliberately impacting the economy of a British Overseas Territory. It is time for the government to get off the fence and take a tougher line’.

A six-month ultimatum set by the Foreign Affairs Committee required Spain to clean up its act in regards to water incursions and border controls.

The deadline passed last week and the committee declared that ‘there was no improvement’.

Rob Horgan

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  1. 1528 hrs. House of Commons Record, Article 259

    Several MPs have backed the Foreign Affairs Committee’s call to take Spain to the European Court of Justice using Article 259 of the Lisbon Treaty.

    Under Article 259, any EU member state which considers that another state has failed to fulfil its treaty obligations may take them to court where they may receive sanctions.

    If the situation at the border does not improve within the next 6-months then the committee recommends that the UK should make it clear that it intends to begin proceedings against Spain – pending final results of the European Commission’s investigation into the situation at the border.

  2. With out a doubt, it is time to get of the fence and call it a day!

    Nobody in Europe will support colonialism with in Europe in the 21st century except for the UK. Gibraltar serves absolutely no purpose other that to affect the overall good relationship between the UK and Spain.

    The UK needs to do what is right, and that is to pull the blug on this colonial leftover.

    • Just wondering, Ciudadanos…Would Spain then be willing to pull the plug on Ceuta and Melilla?
      Of course not, as it’s all in the eyes of the beholder.
      …And by the way, is it not time for Spain to adhere to EU laws as everyone else must do?
      I have spent over 40 years here, love Spain but we need to be realistic!

  3. Well, why can’t the Brits just give back what’s not rightfully theirs, just like with Hong Kong. Why do they have to be such mongrels about everything? I mean gee whiz, it took them forever to adopt the metric system. Not that Spain can’t be bullish as well but come on. Really? Just saying…maybe that’s the problem; both countries are too bullheaded to concede. Needless to say, Spain pretty much holds most of the aces in this poker standoff with UK. Get over it…at the end of the day, I’d like to think we are pretty much both on the same team, so why not just concede that territorially, culturally, and logistically Gibraltar is no more British than is Hong Kong. The world as does time, moves forward, smell the coffee already!

  4. Manny Miami,
    why don’t you give back the USA which you stole from the indigenous people who incidentally you did your best to exterminate – 17 million and upwards – hypocrite.

    The only way to deal with a bully is to give them a good slapping – works every time.

  5. Using your pen name leads me to suggest Miami should be returned to the Seminoles or Tequestas. I see Spanish is becoming the dominant language there too. Is there some plot – just saying. In the meantime the status of Gibraltar should be sorted out once and for all by International Law. Hong Kong was entirely different. It was leased. The lease came to an end. End of.

  6. Firstly, Spain needs to hand back Cueta and Melilla to Morocco. Then without that blatant hypocrisy, it can argue the sovereignty of Gibralter.
    Spain can also hand back Argentina to its indigenous people, and leave the Islands of Falklands to the British people, as no Argentine/Spanish people lived there, until the French then British took control.

  7. Farage Bryan, is only interested in dragging the U.K. out of the E.U. He and his rag-bag right-wing mob would care even less about Gib. than the present bunch of clowns.
    How would Britain leaving the E.U. help Gibraltar?

  8. My my. Aren’t we the touchy bunch. And all this from the empire that barely lasted 150 years. Before we begin any polite discussion let’s at least try and get our history right. Hypocrisy? Really? I do believe it was by the English. As far as the millions of Indians you claim Spain massacred, well that’s simply historically and factually incorrect. Moreover, where the Anglos colonized the Indians still live in reservations…Perhaps the words mulatto and mestizo are of English origin? I think not. While my ancestors were bathing with the Romans, yours were still rolling in the mud puddles, while mine were busy translating Socrates and Aristotle into Latin, yours were still trying to put together your alphabet. Not to mention that even with the extra time you required you still can’t quite even spell alphabet or phonic correctly. Get over yourselves….and while you’re at it read an objective history book now and then. The Tequesta Indians…give me a break they were mostly
    wiped out after Spain sold Florida to the US, by Anglos. Hypocrisy? Really? Th eEnglish invented it!

  9. Incidentally, I’m actually a history professor at Florida Atlantic University. So let me give you a quote from one of England’s most prominent historians, “And they say that England colonized the world with a revolver in one hand, a Bible in the other, and concessions in both pockets, and do I think it be true, I do.” Get over it….

  10. Oh, and by and by, Stuart, Spain didn’t steal the U.S. from the indigenous natives, that was the handy craftsmanship of the English Empire, we Americans simply stole if back from you all. And thank God for that!

  11. Oh, and Robert, Ceuta and Melilla are on a completely separate continent. Kinda like the Falkland Islands….
    It just kinda makes me giggle and feel all warm and fuzzy inside when I read this kind of rubbish. I mean any kind of objective comparison between England and Spain culturally and historically leaves you guys pretty much pissing against the wind. I know its hard for you guys it is really hard to measure anything without quantifying it and labeling it with some monetary value, perhaps that’s just the point I’m trying to make. You just miss the big pi

  12. Oh dear, we’ve got another Brit hating troll on here with an enormous chip on their shoulder.

    Until Spain hands back Ceuta and Melilla, they haven’t got a leg to stand on. You can argue the toss as much as you like but you are wasting your time, Gibraltar will always be British, end of.

  13. From what I have read over the years I think the UK government would love to get rid of Gibraltar, it is just that they have not worked out yet how to do it without a public outcry and losing face.

  14. 92 per cent of Hong Kong was on a lease and keeping on to Kowloon and Hong Kong Island after handing back the New Territories would have been impractical. Spain says that Ceuta and Melilla are integral parts of Spain which have been Spanish for longer than Morocco has existed, but so was Ifni, which Spain gave to Morocco in 1969 without a referendum, despite having made it a Spanish province.

    A history professor at a university? Well, don’t be bashful, tell us your name. Or are you a ‘profesor’ in the Spanish sense of the word? Either way, learn the difference between Britain and England, the Scots have their share of colonial blood on their hands as well, and it was as much a Scottish Empire as an English one.

    Nobody cares about what your ancestors were or what they did – harping on about your ancestry is a symptom of not having achieved anything in your life.

    Refusing to adopt the metric system? A bit rich coming from someone living in the US, which uses even more archaic measurements than the UK. Those nasty ‘Anglo’ countries like Australia and New Zealand metricated in the 1970s.

    English (in some form or other) is the global lingua franca, not simply because of imperialism but because of commerce – look at Asia. How many people there want to learn Spanish there compared to English? The only ones who do are rapacious Chinese businessman seeking their fortunes in Latin America. However, they also learn Brazilian Portuguese, a much nicer language than guttural Spanish, which is what happened when the Arabs tried to learn Latin and thought ‘screw it’.

    To be fair, at least the Spanish didn’t concoct a myth about being ‘better’ colonisers the way the Portuguese did with ‘Lusotropicalism’, although seeing how they exterminated the 8 million-strong indigenous population of Hispaniola (now Haiti and the Dominican Republic) it’s just as well. http://www.monbiot.com/2010/01/11/the-holocaust-we-will-not-see/

  15. 2 major points seem to be overlooked here;

    1). The Treaty of Utrecht

    2). The desire of 98% of Gibraltarians to remain British

    To force 30,000 people to become Spanish against their will is not democracy. The way Spain treats its own citizens is one of the biggest influences over the populations desire to remain British. Just look at the state of the economy and the damage they have caused to the Frontier works in La Linea.

  16. @Manny Miami

    Do you really deny that native American populations declined massively from their pre-Columbian levels long before any “anglos” started colonising parts of America?

    Mulatto and mestizo are not of English origin. Why choose Spanish words when there are so many English equivalents? Quadroon, quarteron, octoroon, quintroon, etc. Clearly you have never heard of the Métis, Cape Coloureds, not to mention a Heinz variety of Eurasians in all the ex-British colonies in Asia like India, Pakistan, Malaysia…

    Your ancestors bathing with the Romans? I take it they were Spanish? It’s just as likely they were serving the Romans bread and wine, and cleaning up after them. And we might have been rolling in muddy puddles, but we were doing that in the Roman province of Britania…

    If it wasn’t for the Arabs little Socrates or Aristotle would have survived. A lot of the early translations may have taken place in Spain they also took place in many other places, especially Sicily (where an Englishman translated Euclid’s Elements). Oh, and it was Frenchman who set up the Toledo school.

    The Tequesta Indians wiped out after Spain sold Florida to the US?. Actually, they had completely disappeared by the time Spain gave away Florida to the British in 1763.

    Like you said, “let’s try and get our history right”…

  17. Manny Miami – ” we Americans” – denial syndrome or insanity?

    You are’t ‘American’ – you are an illegal white European, not invited by the indigenous population to live in their land – got it?

    A history teacher! if you actually teach at all it is pure white man’s propoganda – BTW the good Doctor was way better – you really must try harder with the b/s – it’s not working out for you at the moment.

  18. Manny Miami

    The UN ICJ has made 4 Advisory Opinions and 1 Judgment that all confirm or state, ‘that the right to self-determination is applicable to ALL non-self-governing territories.’ The 1995 East Timor judgment made this right erga omnes, placing an obligation on ALL states to adhere. In the light of the East Timor judgment the UN International Law Commission and UN Human Rights Commission regard the right to self-determination as jus cogens (compelling law). It would be contrary to international law to hand over a non-self-governing territory to a third party against the wishes of the inhabitants.

    Just as Ban Ki-Mooon said in 2010, ‘the 16 remaining territories that still do not govern themselves must have complete freedom of choice to determine how they are governed.’ The people of Gibraltar have chosen ‘free association with the UK’ which is another method recognised as decolonisation.

  19. I hate to do admit that I agree with Stefanjo’s remarks.
    What makes you belive it is her and a professor?
    Moust of what the person rants about you can find on wikipedia and other internet sites.

  20. Yea yea. I really don’t hate the English, I’d say I rather like them. I just call the shots the way I see them. Sorry, if that makes you all uncomfortable. It would seem I’ve hit a nerve! :)

  21. Hit a nerve? Don’t flatter yourself Manny. Just answer my questions – If you can. It’s clear you are calling the shots as you want to see them. Incongruous for someone who is apparently a history professor…

  22. to Robert mc culoch Ceuta and m elilla belonged to Spain before Morocco became a state and country , that is the difference

    and this is not Gibraltar,s case, you smartaleck

  23. Trajan, Hadrian, we’re both Roman Emperors from Iberia. Not to mention Spartacus. In fact about 50% of the most famous Emperors were Iberian. Those are just the ones that come to mind
    How many emperors did England send to Rhome?

    • Yes. The Roman empire which was comprised of the Iberian peninsula. Wow. Again. Stop skirting the issue! How many emperors did England send? Oh, I’m sorry, Whats’ that you say, oh they were still living in caves in England about that time, you say? lmao

  24. Question for Sebastian: When Melilla last changed hands did the Kingdom of Spain exist? You’re wrong about Ceuta by the way, when it was ceded to Castilla in 1668 Morocco certainly did exist.

    Manny, as far as I can tell Trajan and Hadrian were both born in the Roman Empire. Roman, not Iberian empire. You say 50% of the most famous Emperors born in Iberia? Really? That depends entirely on which ones are considered most famous. A more detached and objective analysis would probably find that 99% of the most famous emperors were born in what is now Italy. And Spartacus? You surprise me. He was Thracian. Are you claiming Thrace as part of Iberia now? Then again, that wouldn’t surprise me…

    • The issue at hand is that it is completely up to the people of Gibraltar to determine how and by whom they are governed. You will not find anything ‘relevant’ that contradicts this.

  25. @Manny Miami – if you accept the rule of law and as a resident of a demorcratic country which is oh so keen to blow its own trumpet as the land of the free then I assume you do accept this maxim – I must come back to Gibrock’s statement –

    1). The Treaty of Utrecht


    2). The desire of 98% of Gibraltarians to remain British

    When the Berber General Tariq ibn Ziyad captured Gibraltar in 711AD it was only inhabited by goats and their goat herders. The Moors were virtually removed from Spain in around 1462. The Spanish made little or no use of the Rock and it wasn’t long, in historical terms, that the British occupied and really made use of the Rock. Spain then gave Gibraltar to the British by signing the Treaty.

    The Gibraltarians look across the border and see how the Spanish have been and are being treated by their Government and they don’t fancy anything of the same.

    As far as Hong Kong was concerned – the British Government held the majority of that on a 99 year lease. At the end of that period in accordance with the terms of the lease the UK returned it to its owner. The very limited part Britain didn’t hold on a lease we gave to China, free gratis and for nothing as it was too small for self government. i.e. the British obeyed the law.

    How can you, an American, object to the British obeying the law – in this case the Treaty of Utrecht. Apart from anything else it’s nothing to do with you!

  26. I mean talk about hypocrisy, your country covertly sponsored piracy on the high seas for centuries. lol
    Wow. The English hypocrisy know no limits…I stand corrected….yea whatever you guys say…wow.

  27. You guys wanna talk treaties, conveniently now when it suits you, yet all your statesmen and countrymen have historically done nothing but defile and breach the very same treaties you yourself created, your treaties in the Americas, particularly with the Indians no doubt, but also as is well documented with regard to treaties you entered with Spain, and for that matter, as prelude to all Britain’s endeavors around the world!!!

    As far as my spelling goes, it’s really not my fault you all can’t even spell the word “phonic” correctly.
    Is it? I’m just saying…

  28. Manny,
    you are only good for a laugh. Anyone who studied the war of independence knows full well that it was’nt taxation that broght about the revolt of the colonists it was the treaty the Brits made with the various Indian nations that no colonoists would be allowed beyind the Alleghenny mountains.

    No sooner had the colonists won their freedom than they set about exrterminating the indigenous peoples – even resorting to using blankets infected with smallpox to kill them. It was a very effective weapon that wiped out half of all the indigenous people in one summer and made it much easier to continue murdering them.

    There was another American, a typical white racist Christian who held up Andrew Jackson as a Christian role model he was known as ‘the Indian killer’.

    It was the colonists who broke every treaty they ever forced on the indigenous people (only morons refer to these indigenous people as Indians). There is a treaty the ex-colonists made with the Iriquois federation that states cleary that New York Sate would be handed back to them – how about honouring tat treaty.

  29. To be English is to be a hypocrite, according to acclaimed playwright and author Alan Bennett.

    One of 50 high-profile figures asked to say what the country excels at the most by BBC Radio 4 to mark the 50th anniversary of the World at One programme, the creator of The History Boys and Talking Head made his selection after discarding other ideas such as medieval churches, the National Trust and Swaledale in Yorkshire.

  30. I’m sorry still dying to know how many emperors England sent to Rome. The answer is none. Not one! So stop correcting silly spelling mistakes that are inherent in the shambles of the very language that you yourselves have created. You see ya just can’t seem to get over your own hypocrisy….have

    Treaties? Treaties? The English invented treachery…back in Tudor England, and have steadfastly practiced it all the way up until the present!

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