27 Jan, 2009 @ 08:50
1 min read

They keep coming


Despite the credit crunch, thousands of Britons are still relocating to Spain while the country is still tops for Scottish and British holidaymakers

THE number of people seeking a new life in Spain has surged by 12 per cent as Britons firmly established themselves as the country’s fourth-largest immigrant community.

At the same time a new poll shows that among the Scottish, at least, Spain is still the Number One holiday destination.

Figures show more than 1.2 million passengers travelled from Scotland to Spain last year. It was the country’s most popular destination.

And in further good news a poll by the British Travel Association (ABTA) suggests that a majority of Britons will be spending the same or more money this year on their holidays.

Citing the need to unwind and to have something to look forward to, over 66 per cent of those asked said they would not cut back on holidays.

Figures released yesterday by the Spanish government reveal that the number of British expatriates registered as resident in Spain rose to 352,000 last year.

That gave Spain a bigger British population than all but eight local authorities in England.

It also emerged that immigrants are no longer mainly pensioners. The figures show only one third of Britons living in Spain are over 55.

The Foreign Office believes the official Spanish figure still hugely under-represents the real numbers living in Spain. It estimates that around one million Britons live permanently here.

The bad news though was that according to Spanish tourist industry figures the number of Britons visiting Spain dropped by 15 per cent in November on the previous year.

That said, around 17 million British tourists land at Spanish airports or drive across the border every year, according to the Foreign Office.

They account for approximately a third of all Spain’s tourists, bringing the country 11 per cent of GDP from tourism.


  1. ‘Despite the credit crunch, thousands of Britons are still relocating to Spain while the country is still tops for Scottish and British holidaymakers’

    Is Scotland not part of Britain?

  2. Dj Kev,
    one of the most abused words in the ‘English’ language is the word British.

    You are right in part about Scots and Brits. Scotland has two distinct Celtic peoples – the Gaelic celts who moved from Erin to the isles and western highlands and the ‘men of the north’ called Pictae (Latin) – literally the painted ones, from the use of woad used to tattoo themselves, actually all Celts tattoed themselves to denote tribe/status and so on.

    These ‘men of the north’ were in fact Britannic Celts, the same as those who inhabited the land that is nowadays called Wales, which itself is derived from old Danish to denote foreigners, a joke because the Danish were the real foreigners.

    When the Ayrian savages, known collectively today as the ‘English’ began to invade in numbers they became cut-off from the rest of the Britannic peoples.

    It’s part of the historical brainwashing that takes place in all English schools that has caused this confusion in ‘English’ people, most of whom are definately not Engli – the north German tribe but are Saxon/Jutlander/Freise/Zeelander or Viking from Bergen and Stavanger or Sweden.

    It always makes me laugh when I hear the ‘English’ talking about ‘bloody Germans’ – their own people.

  3. One things for sure and that’s that there’ll certainly be more Sweaty Socks that will be able to afford to permanently move or holiday in Spain than will their English counterparts after ALL the free prescriptions and other subsidies they’ve managed through their MP’s to scrounge off the English Taxpayers? Are the Jocks so tight they oil each other with WD40 each day or are they too thrifty for that?

  4. If only the British would sign on to the empadronamiento (padron)at their respective town halls, then the Local Authority could claim the €400 per capita from Central Government, thereby making facilities better for all.

    That would also help the FO and Spanish statistics come closer to the truth.

  5. Paul,
    you ‘English’ have been milking Scottish oil since the 70s’ and squandered the proceeds on Social Security payments instead of using it to train the un-employed and set up high tech industries like the Netherlands and Germany.

    If Scotland had declared UDI in the early 70s’ we would be an extremely wealthy country now. We would have bought in oil when the price was low and only pumped and sold when the price was high. We would not have had oilrigs and platforms built using Koppelbosses (blackwork criminals)in the Netherlands. We would have used Scottish made steel and done what the Norwegians did – use foreign know how to train their own and then send the foreigners packing.

    If you don’t like what is happening in ‘England’ – why don’t you go back and change things – ah but that means taking responsibility and that’s something that not many English have the bottle for.

  6. Mr Crawford, on behalf of all the contributors and readers of this thread, I would like to thank you for imparting this wisdom on us. And I think we would all be even more grateful to you were it not for the nagging suspicion that the knowledge has been imparted solely with the aim of exhibiting to us how learned you are.

    Paul’s comments on Scottish subsidies expose a common prejudice. I have to say, having been initially very skeptical about devolution, I now recognise that it has, at times, been a good thing for Scotland.

    However as to the argument about independence for Scotland, Mr Crawford has reverted to the old theme about Scotland’s oil. Of course, and I wonder if Mr Crawford has enough wit to realise this, the whole independence argument is completely fatuous. Independence for Scotland would require an Act of the Westminster parliament and thus the consent of English members of that parliament. Do you really think they are going to give up their oil revenues so easily, and for nothing in return?
    As to the comment about unilateral declaration of independence, that is one of the most ludicrous statements I’ve ever heard. If Scotland declared UDI today, or had done so back in the seventies, just exactly who and what other countries would actually recognise it as an independent nation? Not many I would suggest. Perhaps Robert Mugabe’s Zimbabwe as some kind of up yours to the old colonial power. Maybe North Korea for similarly bizarre reasons. Without international recognition, the country wouldn’t be able to survive. What a strange thing to have suggested.

    Who knows what the Scottish National Party is going to come up with next? It’s clear that their leader, Alex Salmond, is a clever man and a consummate politician. But ultimately his politics are driven by ideology and that makes him dangerous. At least he can no longer resort to the “arc of prosperity” argument, which has been shown up to be a total fantasy. Ireland was the first economy in the EU to go into recession. Iceland, as a country, became technically insolvent. And the Baltic states of the former Soviet Union, which Salmond has also in the past cited as models for an independent Scotland, are now experiencing some of the steepest economic downturns in Europe.

    On top of this, Salmond just clearly doesn’t believe in the philosophy of small government and low taxation, which most legitimate economists agree is the only model by which a small nation state can prosper.

  7. Koba,
    is’nt it strange (or not) that you have pointedly not agreed that the ‘English’ entered our Celtic islands by force – denial syndrome.

    As to recognition of an independant Scotland, many countries would have recognized our UDI, and had the English army entered Scotland we would of course have asked the Russians for help, which they would have leapt to do.

    This would have had the US going crazy and they would have ordered their English poodle to leave immediately – which of course you would have done. After all the English dissapeared up the US rectum at the beginning of WW11 and have never reappeared since.

    Maybe you are’nt aware that modern history has proved repeatedly that short of total extermination, you cannot beat a people in their own country Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanstan. However you English did try to murder as many Highlanders as you could in the ‘Pacification campaign’ conducted in 1746 and used as a textbook classic in terror tactics in the SS training colledges of Nazi Germany you were of course taught all about this at school were’nt you?

    As you were taught who created the first death camps – no not Nazi Germany but the British Empire, Maritzburg, South Africa 1900-1, 25,000 old men, women and children deliberately starved to death and why?
    Well they objected to the English wanting the gold and diamonds that they themselves were already looting from the land that they had previously stolen from the indigenous people – the Bushman.Their Kommandos were running rings around pompous English twats like you, hence the death camps to teach them a lesson.

    Your English empire is gone, you hav’nt a clue about identity, or where the hell your stolen land is going. You all did nothing to stop the looting of the nations assets, indeed you are probably one of those who profited mightily from Thacher’s theft of water/electricity/gas/railways it goes on and on does’nt it.

    By low taxation you mean low taxation for the rich don’t you but of course are too cowardly to put it into words.

    And your analogy about small countries is of course again very stupid – Sweden and more pertinently Norway come to mind, why did’nt you use them as examples – because they did’nt suit your argument.

    They are two large countries with small populations very high taxation and very high standards of living. The quality of their services are second to none.

    Norway – population 3.75 million (Scotland 6.2 million) enormous quantities of light crude oil (same as Scotland). The Nowegians did’nt squander their oil wealth, they invested it and have a huge sovereign wealth fund – which all the Nowegian people benefit from not just the parasitic chattering classes to which you so obviously belong.

    Indeed the Nowegian krona is already one of this years star currencies up around 12% so far and so easy to see why – no current account deficit, no real unemployment and all backed up by this huge sovereign wealth fund, oh yes and plenty of oil still left – that could have, indeed would been Scotland.

    The Baltic States threw off the yoke of Russian state capitalism, only to take on the new corruption of western capitalism – a few got mightily rich by robbing their own people – obviously something an odious greedy character like you undoubtedly approved of. Now the day of reckoning is upon those countries and of course it has absolutely nothing to do with their size does it, as indeed the virtual destruction of the US/UK financial systems by the same type of scum is identical.

    You mention Ireland but deliberately don’t mention the real reason for it’s financial downfall – the unsustainable property boom, that and that alone brought about Ireland’s financial dowfall – why did’nt you mention that fundamentalpoint – oh yes – it did’nt suit your argument.

    You use the word idealogy – you are of course referring to Thatcherism. You know in a face to face even a half brained idiot could destroy you totally.

    It would be nice to know what exactly you did for employment to enable you to come and live in Spain – you could even shock me and maybe tell the truth(doubtful since your words betray you as a devious mendacious twat) it might even be something that produced product or a service to the community as a whole but I’ll bet it was something parasitic.

    I have many English friends, they are decent human beings who have turned and looked at what and from where they really come, just as I have examined the whole history of my people.Not all of it is good and indeed a lot of it is rotten but I’m not in denial like you.

    Koba (what a strange handle) you may or may not have a UK passport but your only loyalty is to your own narrow selfish interests.You know what makes morons like you so stupid is that you really don’t know that others can see through your kind so easily – now come on let us all know what you did in the UK for a living. I was, am a builder, I have never engaged in cowboy practices and have always treated my clients with respect which has been reciprocated. I have built homes/schools/factories/university accomodation.

    Now come on sunshine find some balls and let us all know what you did for a living – then we will all see exactly where you are coming from – you won’t be so cowardly as to not tell us all will you?

    Your extremely pompous words I think point to one of the grossly overpaid parasitic professions.You should be frightened by what the Masons oh sorry Cheifs of Police are forcasting for this summer – social unrest, who knows the ordinary English might just come to realise that they need to create a new society like Norway or Sweden and that the likes of you are excess to their requirements – what a thought.

  8. Dear Mr Crawford, thank you for the reply. Very thorough and very well articulated I might add. And no, I’m not being sarcastic.

    Where do I start? Well firstly, I need to take issue with the following three phrases in your discourse (there may be others of relevance but I cannot find them at the moment):

    “However you English…”
    “Your English empire is gone.”
    “…around pompous English twats like you,…”

    All of the above imply that you believe me to be English. But in fact I am Scottish. I was born in Scotland, spent my childhood in a rather dark and depressing place called Cumbernauld, and have lived for significant periods of time in Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

    I find it interesting that, just because I have expressed a sentiment against Scottish independence, you therefore conclude that I cannot be Scottish and, more specifically, I must therefore be English. Well I’ve got news for you Mr Crawford; not all people in Scotland are in favour of independence.

    Good, so we’ve got that point cleared up. That also nullifies the whole denial syndrome theme at the start of your message.

    As to your clarifications on the subject of a hypothetical UDI by Scotland, I find it almost laughable the idea that the Russians would have intervened to help us. You mean like how the Americans leapt in to help Afghanistan when it was invaded by the Russians (other than leading a boycott of the 1980 Olympics in Moscow), or like how we all leapt in to save the Tutsis when the genocide started in Rwanda in 1994.

    Let’s now consider Norway and Sweden. Well of course, Norway is prospering, and will no doubt continue to prosper for some time to come. It has hydrocarbon reserves even bigger than that of the UK for a population of, as you point out, 3.75 million, which compares to the UK population of 60 million. That small country’s good fortune to be blessed with such wealth of natural resources puts it in the same category as countries like the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait.

    Of course, I deliberately make the comparison with UK, not Scottish, oil reserves because, as I mentioned previously, no matter what the independence fantasists like yourself may like to dream, there is no way that UK parliament is going to sign away it’s oil revenues as part of the creation of a new, independent Scotland. Those who think otherwise are living in cloud cuckoo land. What worries me is that, in whatever future negotiations there may be for Scottish separation from the United Kingdom, Mr Salmond will quite happily sign away a very large proportion of future oil revenues just so that he can fulfill his own egotistical sense of destiny of being the man who brought independence to Scotland.

    As for Sweden, well I didn’t mention it merely because I don’t ever remember Mr Salmond mentioning it, whose “arc of prosperity” argument I was trying to debunk. However let’s talk I about it then. The thing is Sweden has a modern, highly industrialized economy and I’m afraid Scotland does not and never will. That ship has alas sailed a long time ago. Scotland’s golden age of prosperity was built on the artificial market of the British Empire. As the empire waned, so I’m afraid did Scotland’s prosperity.

    I don’t disagree with anything (the small-minded personal insults aside) you say about the Baltic States. However it was Mr Salmond who was the one who quoted them as a model for an independent Scotland, not me. Please therefore take your points up with Mr Salmond.

    As to ideology, well I won’t bother sharing my opinions with you on Thatcherism. They’ll just get you upset. Besides, I don’t remember mentioning Mrs Thatcher at any point in my previous message. I was talking about Mr Salmond in case you hadn’t noticed. In my eyes, he’s dangerous because he puts his ideology before the practical realities that he’s faced with. That makes him popular with idealists like you, but it puts him in a poor light compared to proper politicians. Take Winston Churchill for example. On ideological grounds he was the arch-enemy of communism. But that didn’t stop him entering into an alliance with the Soviet Union to defeat Nazi Germany in World War II. That appreciation of real-politik made Mr Churchill a great politician, something that Mr Salmond will never be.

    Oh and while we are on the subject of World War II, since you imply that it was the English that fought Boer War then I assume you consider it was only the English who fought in World War II. I wonder what someone like you would have wished an independent Scotland to have done in World War II. Probably take the easy option and remain neutral at best, a bit like your beloved Sweden and Ireland did, while German fascism went on its merry way exterminating whole races of people. Maybe you would have wished that we followed the example of the Irish government, which was the only one in the world to send a message of condolences to the German government on the death of Hitler.

    I don’t see the relevance of what my occupation is to any of this, other than to allow you to seek refuge in your own political and ideological beliefs. But I don’t wish to give you the satisfaction of coming back to say that I was running away from something. So, back in the UK I was a software engineer. A bit like you, I built things, though obviously not things of material construction. Whether you choose to believe this or whether you choose to chastise this as a “parasitic” profession I couldn’t care less to be honest. All you will try to do with this knowledge is fatuously try to justify the assumptions that you made about my character and background. Assumptions that were so wide off the mark as to be comical and betraying a lack of thought on your own part.

    As for Koba, well I was given that as a nickname when I was a teenager. It also happens to be the early revolutionary pseudonym of one Joseph Stalin. Like you he was an advocator of the class struggle. Oh and by the way, he was also responsible for the murder of 20,000,000 of his own citizens. A great role model for socialism, don’t you think?

  9. What a contrast between the dignity displayed by Koba and the insulting and prejudiced writings of Stuart Crawford. Insults always weaken an argument, Stuart, but I guess you´re feeling pretty chastened now anyway, having got everything about Koba totally wrong!
    Personally I cannot understand the animosity between fellow Brits, as exemplified by people like Stuart. I´m 50/50 Welsh/English and proud to be British, but have no problem supporting Scotland against, say, France in the 6 Nations or Celtic against AC Milan or Real Madrid in the Champions League. The Scots seem to be the worst amongst the tribes that make up the modern-day United Kingdom – why is that, I wonder…

  10. What’s happened to Stuart Crawford, a totally balanced individual as he has a chip on both shoulders! No posts since March? I was really enjoying that argument (or rather, reasoned argument versus rant!). I wonder why he hates the English so much?

  11. Thanks Footloose. I’ve only just started reading the OP on-line so I’m a bit behind the times. I’ve had a look at that link, quite a punch up going on over there! What is it with that Stuart Crawford? He seems to hate the Spanish as much as he hates the English! What’s he doing living in Spain!?

  12. Chris, when you’ve lived here for a while you’ll understand some of the frustrations better. However, in Granada City you should have no problems, so a wise move I’d say. Stay clear of rural homes.

  13. Thanks Fred, following the comments here and on other threads has given me quite a handle on what’s going on. It’ll be a few years yet before I can think about moving to Spain so hopefully some of the Spanish Practices (ahem!) will have been sorted out by then.

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